The problem with the inner city schools is that they are teaching many kids that come from families that don’t value education. My wife taught in an inner city school and as one who grew up in a rural school I was aghast at that attitudes of many of the parents.
The kids from these homes then become a disruption and interrupt the learning process for the kids who WANT to learn. And that is why people with resources fled those schools.
My wife was threatened with violence by a Jr. High boy and the parents, at the expulsion hearing argued it wasn’t fair to expel him because they couldn’t afford daycare for him. They wern’t even apologetic over the behavior of their little wannabe thug.
We didn’t want our kids being taught in that environment so like many other parents we moved out into the suburbs and country.
That is not a brush that paints all inner city kids because I know many that are working hard and trying to do the right thing. But putting 3X the dollars into kids that don’t want to learn won’t fix the problem.
We have to fix Urban culture before we can fix Urban schools. And that starts with Personal Responsibility and raising kids to be Citizens and not Gangstas.
It is easy to say “fix the urban culture”. The real question is how? I doubt you are going to reform the parents. The best bet is to make the schools a safe haven with discipline. Providing good role models and a good education is the best bet for changing the culture of the next generation.One big problem is in Illinois we have a public pension system that is simply affordable and it is unlikely the public will pay for that and increased taxes to equally fund schools. They way it looks the unions are going to keep pushing until pension systems go bankrupt and a lot of public employees are out of a job.
@Ted – I agree; changing Urban Culture is hard and will probably take multiple generations. But in the meantime my kids are going to school and I don’t want them being forced to walk the halls with kids who don’t value education and rule of law. White flight only reinforced Urban Culture because societies that enclave tend to reinforce their own culture and sneer at any other (This is true for Fundamentalist Christians, Urban Youth, isolated rural towns etc.)
In answer to “how do you reform parents?” We can start by not reinforcing behaviors that contribute to this problem. I would argue that Lyndon B. Johnsons War on Poverty did more to hasten the demise of cities than any other 2 factors. By making it easy for babies to raise babies through subsidized housing and foodstamps for pregnant teens we made many kids grow up without fathers or stable households. Many of us saw Cabrini Green as Hell on Earth in Chicago where there were 3rd and 4th generation welfare moms raising kids with no support for the dads.
I, too, am in Illinois and my Wife teaches in an Illinois School so pension reform is a discussion around our table quite often. Just so you know; Illinois teachers that are reliant on that pension have paid into it (much like Social Security for the rest of us) and are depending on it for their retirement. Yes there are lazy and useless teachers out there but there are also many good teachers working hard and doing the right thing that should be able to live in quiet dignity after retirement like everyone else.
I have absolutely no problem with paying retirees and those who will be retired in the next decade or so what they were promised. I would make police and fire a special case because of their risky job. The rest of the public system should be changed for the future to be more like private systems using 401Ks and other like instruments. I worked all my life at a good job for a very good company. The public pension and benefits far surpasses what most of us in the private sector get. Then to add insult to injury I get taxed to pay for the Cadillac benefits.
Russ it would have been helpful to let us know how you would solve the problem. From your comment I guess you would kick them all out of school and see if they could fend for themselves. Any constructive ideas?
@Adrian – So I think you are calling us parents that intentionally removed our kids from the schools with violent stupid thugs selfish.
I’m sure, if we were more noble (like you). We would stay in the cities and force are children into violent and failing schools so we would be motivated to spend more money on the rabble that never wanted to learn in the first place.
Instead, we sought out enclaves where our kids could grow and learn in an environment with other kids with similar values and culture.
The schools my kids have and do attend were Safe, Orderly, and dedicated to teaching. I want to keep them in that environment.
And I still say that simply throwing money at the issue won’t fix the problem. The reason that School on the left is so impoverished is because it is forced to spend its resources on managing violence, providing lunch and breakfast for half its students, teaching reading to Juniors because their parents never read to them, etc.
As I said above. My wife taught at an Urban School first and now teaches at a Suburban school (A job she enjoys much more). She will be the first to tell you that the difference in experience in outcome isn’t so much in the difference spent on students (The difference is less then $500) but because of Parental involvement and a desire by the parents for their kids to learn. A sense of responsibility by the community to support the school and to expect performance and discipline from the students…An essence very much lacking in many Urban Schools.
sw10mm about 10 years ago
The school on the left started off like the one on the right.
Mephistopheles about 10 years ago
The problem with the inner city schools is that they are teaching many kids that come from families that don’t value education. My wife taught in an inner city school and as one who grew up in a rural school I was aghast at that attitudes of many of the parents.
The kids from these homes then become a disruption and interrupt the learning process for the kids who WANT to learn. And that is why people with resources fled those schools.
My wife was threatened with violence by a Jr. High boy and the parents, at the expulsion hearing argued it wasn’t fair to expel him because they couldn’t afford daycare for him. They wern’t even apologetic over the behavior of their little wannabe thug.
We didn’t want our kids being taught in that environment so like many other parents we moved out into the suburbs and country.
That is not a brush that paints all inner city kids because I know many that are working hard and trying to do the right thing. But putting 3X the dollars into kids that don’t want to learn won’t fix the problem.
We have to fix Urban culture before we can fix Urban schools. And that starts with Personal Responsibility and raising kids to be Citizens and not Gangstas.
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member about 10 years ago
It is easy to say “fix the urban culture”. The real question is how? I doubt you are going to reform the parents. The best bet is to make the schools a safe haven with discipline. Providing good role models and a good education is the best bet for changing the culture of the next generation.One big problem is in Illinois we have a public pension system that is simply affordable and it is unlikely the public will pay for that and increased taxes to equally fund schools. They way it looks the unions are going to keep pushing until pension systems go bankrupt and a lot of public employees are out of a job.
Mephistopheles about 10 years ago
@Ted – I agree; changing Urban Culture is hard and will probably take multiple generations. But in the meantime my kids are going to school and I don’t want them being forced to walk the halls with kids who don’t value education and rule of law. White flight only reinforced Urban Culture because societies that enclave tend to reinforce their own culture and sneer at any other (This is true for Fundamentalist Christians, Urban Youth, isolated rural towns etc.)
In answer to “how do you reform parents?” We can start by not reinforcing behaviors that contribute to this problem. I would argue that Lyndon B. Johnsons War on Poverty did more to hasten the demise of cities than any other 2 factors. By making it easy for babies to raise babies through subsidized housing and foodstamps for pregnant teens we made many kids grow up without fathers or stable households. Many of us saw Cabrini Green as Hell on Earth in Chicago where there were 3rd and 4th generation welfare moms raising kids with no support for the dads.
I, too, am in Illinois and my Wife teaches in an Illinois School so pension reform is a discussion around our table quite often. Just so you know; Illinois teachers that are reliant on that pension have paid into it (much like Social Security for the rest of us) and are depending on it for their retirement. Yes there are lazy and useless teachers out there but there are also many good teachers working hard and doing the right thing that should be able to live in quiet dignity after retirement like everyone else.
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member about 10 years ago
I have absolutely no problem with paying retirees and those who will be retired in the next decade or so what they were promised. I would make police and fire a special case because of their risky job. The rest of the public system should be changed for the future to be more like private systems using 401Ks and other like instruments. I worked all my life at a good job for a very good company. The public pension and benefits far surpasses what most of us in the private sector get. Then to add insult to injury I get taxed to pay for the Cadillac benefits.
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member about 10 years ago
Russ it would have been helpful to let us know how you would solve the problem. From your comment I guess you would kick them all out of school and see if they could fend for themselves. Any constructive ideas?
writchey1 about 10 years ago
Yeah….Detroit anyone? Look at the before and after pictures and if you have a once of sense you will see what has changed.
piobaire about 10 years ago
Thank you for the insightful post. Well done!
Mephistopheles about 10 years ago
@Adrian – So I think you are calling us parents that intentionally removed our kids from the schools with violent stupid thugs selfish.
I’m sure, if we were more noble (like you). We would stay in the cities and force are children into violent and failing schools so we would be motivated to spend more money on the rabble that never wanted to learn in the first place.
Instead, we sought out enclaves where our kids could grow and learn in an environment with other kids with similar values and culture.
The schools my kids have and do attend were Safe, Orderly, and dedicated to teaching. I want to keep them in that environment.
And I still say that simply throwing money at the issue won’t fix the problem. The reason that School on the left is so impoverished is because it is forced to spend its resources on managing violence, providing lunch and breakfast for half its students, teaching reading to Juniors because their parents never read to them, etc.
As I said above. My wife taught at an Urban School first and now teaches at a Suburban school (A job she enjoys much more). She will be the first to tell you that the difference in experience in outcome isn’t so much in the difference spent on students (The difference is less then $500) but because of Parental involvement and a desire by the parents for their kids to learn. A sense of responsibility by the community to support the school and to expect performance and discipline from the students…An essence very much lacking in many Urban Schools.