Robert A. Heinlein has a lot to answer for by creating that nonsensical and demonstrably inaccurate slogan. (He wrote SCIENCE FICTION, guys. That line shows up in a book where they have been doing genetic engineering of the population for generations, and even then he showed exceptions.) The states with the most open-carry and loosest gun-control laws have the most deaths due to guns. Those that are tighter have fewer. It is as simple as that.
Perhaps if you live in a crime riddled neighborhood, carrying a gun might make sense. For most everyone else it is like being afraid to fly or to get a vaccination. The risk of carrying a gun is much greater than the likelihood you will ever have to defend your self. Those who open carry in places like Starbucks are for the most part just showing off. I think the macho display helps them over come their basic inadequacy. I am sure most of them lack any kind of safety training or in the laws governing self defense and if they ever use their gun they will end up like George Zimmerman or end up shooting a relative after a couple of beers. I don’t really have a problem with the the idea of open or concealed carry since it has been shown not to cause great problems but it would be nice if there was a requirement for a couple of days of basic safety, legal and some actual practice training so at least they know which end of the gun to point at somebody.
I fully support gun ownership. But to carry around a gun for the sole purpose to display it, is like waving it in other’s faces. No wonder we are seeing our gun rights being taken away.
ANYONE who has a concealed carry license HAS gone through training and practice. Its the only way you can get one. Your instructor signs your application where it asks about training. As far as tighter gun control and lower murders, check the statistics for Chicago, one of the MOST stringent gun control cities in the US AND one of the highest murder rates. Now, ask all those criminals about obeying the laws and getting gun training. Ask the pizza delivery drivers about how they would love to lay down their lives for their jobs. Cooperating with the demands of thieves DOES NOT GUARANTEE that they will not shoot you. They don’t want witnesses who can ID them to the police, who show up 10-15-20 minutes later. RESPONSIBLE gun owners, trained and practicing often, do not leave their guns lying around. Ask the woman who was stabbed 9 times by her husband while she was working how well the restraining order worked vs. the 72 yr old man who saved her by shooting and killing the husband in the act. It all boils down to taking responsibility for your choices. If we don’t take the responsibility for protecting ourselves and our loved ones seriously, then the bad guys win, continue to commit crimes including murder, rape, robbery, etc. Or, in worse case scenario, we become Germany, Russia, North Korea, or Mexico, where tyranny reigns.
I don’t own any guns (except for pellet rifles for varmit control) so this really isn’t something I care about from a personal sense of self protection.
But the 2nd Amendment guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms and I don’t want to deprive people of their rights just so a bunch of people don’t have to look at them.
Open carry laws don’t force YOU to carry a gun. They stop YOU from being a pain in the a$$ for the guy who chooses to exercise his rights.
They also don’t prevent YOU from demanding that there be no guns on YOUR private property.
I do have a problem with people who want to take away the rights of my neighbor so that they can feel safer/better/smarter/ more civilized/whatever.
Today it’s the second amendment. How long till those same people turn their eye on the First amendment because they don’t like what my neighbor says in public – OH YEAH, That’s right, it’s already happening.
If you want to stop people from carrying guns then I encourage you to convince the super majority of us that it requires to amend the constitution. Otherwise just wring your hands and tell us how upset you are because the guy in front of you at Starbucks has a Glock on his hip.
Yes, you’re right. I see the governor just signed a bill that allows a family, to report a family member who threatens to use a gun to kill someone, and the police can confiscate the gun for up to 21 days. That’s just terrible, taking away the potential killer’s gun for 3 weeks. Oh the humanity…..
Phantom Marine: I was just referencing those “open carry” folks, not so much how many guns. BTW ten deadliest cities in the U.S., Chicago doesn’t come close to the list, but Miami (loose Florida gun laws) is a lot more deadly. Flint and Detroit are first and second, meaning poverty is what actually may make guns more dangerous? Then comes New Orleans and Baton Rouge St Louis, Birmingham in those high numbers, where gun availailty, poverty, and population packing play roles.
I live in a rural community where guns are very prevalent for hunting, predator control by ranchers/farmers, but “self defense” against our neighbors is NOT the reason. There are some big city areas I DO carry in, and I was in law enforcement.
My first year, my agency didn’t even carry guns, then concealed, finally “open carry” for our officers. I only drew my gun all the way out once, but never shot anyone. “Blarney” is a better tool for a police contact situation than bullets, and when your posture and voice intimidates the “bad guy”, far more effective than shooting them, and that INCLUDES bad guys who do have firearms or weapons. In law enforcment, OR SELF DEFENSE, you don’t make threats, you make PROMISES! And that does work!
KNOWING what you’re doing, and what your skills are, gives you confidence that bad guys can observe by your posture and actions, they don’t mess to try to find out what you DO know, that they don’t. I made over 1,200 felony arrests, not shooting anyone, and had only three folks who “hurt themselves” by challenging “authority” in the process of arrest.
“open carry” is stupid, and a guy carrying his zipper content on his hip, to compensate for what his fly doesn’t have to be very big to “conceal”.
Yup, there are some jerks in every family. I support gun ownership, and discrete carry. Discrete because guns in general upset some people, so open carry would be bad manners. And honestly, if – as a civilian – I’m going someplace that requires carrying a semi-automatic rifle, I don’t want to go.
@ahab – If you are going to bring race into the discussion I am going to have to ask if that individual would last any longer then my life expectancy should I decide to openly wear a firearm while ordering at a Popeyes just outside a housing project.
Some of us think the Anti-gun fanatics look an awful lot like the guy in the picture up above only they don’t have a rifle strapped to their back .
“If a politician isn’t perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash — for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything — without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn’t your friend no matter what he tells you.” L. Neil Smith, libertarian gun nut.
The word “most” near the beginning of your second paragraph is perhaps more telling than you’d like to think.What do the gun nuts say when Bubba Wackaloon shows off his manhood by shooting just to shoot, or when someone overreacts to a random motion, perceived as a threat by a mind that feels like it need to carry a gun in the first place?
mdavis: would you care to list those 39 states with no ill effects that haven’t recorded a single gun death between them all?? That’s a statement even too wierd if coming from the NRA.
Dtroutma about 9 years ago
Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, us, polite societies.
OmqR-IV.0 about 9 years ago
3-year-old boy shoots father, pregnant mother in New Mexico
Florida toddler fatally shoots himself with father’s gun while parents load car
US woman accidentally shot dead by son, two, in Idaho Wal-Mart
Guns don’t kill people, toddlers do.
Ottodesu about 9 years ago
And … this is the main reason why I and many tourists are now crossing off the USA from our must-see lists.
Motivemagus about 9 years ago
Robert A. Heinlein has a lot to answer for by creating that nonsensical and demonstrably inaccurate slogan. (He wrote SCIENCE FICTION, guys. That line shows up in a book where they have been doing genetic engineering of the population for generations, and even then he showed exceptions.) The states with the most open-carry and loosest gun-control laws have the most deaths due to guns. Those that are tighter have fewer. It is as simple as that.
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member about 9 years ago
Perhaps if you live in a crime riddled neighborhood, carrying a gun might make sense. For most everyone else it is like being afraid to fly or to get a vaccination. The risk of carrying a gun is much greater than the likelihood you will ever have to defend your self. Those who open carry in places like Starbucks are for the most part just showing off. I think the macho display helps them over come their basic inadequacy. I am sure most of them lack any kind of safety training or in the laws governing self defense and if they ever use their gun they will end up like George Zimmerman or end up shooting a relative after a couple of beers. I don’t really have a problem with the the idea of open or concealed carry since it has been shown not to cause great problems but it would be nice if there was a requirement for a couple of days of basic safety, legal and some actual practice training so at least they know which end of the gun to point at somebody.
hugewolf about 9 years ago
I fully support gun ownership. But to carry around a gun for the sole purpose to display it, is like waving it in other’s faces. No wonder we are seeing our gun rights being taken away.
nanellen about 9 years ago
great point. I carry in my purse, no one knows I have it.
Dreamcat about 9 years ago
ANYONE who has a concealed carry license HAS gone through training and practice. Its the only way you can get one. Your instructor signs your application where it asks about training. As far as tighter gun control and lower murders, check the statistics for Chicago, one of the MOST stringent gun control cities in the US AND one of the highest murder rates. Now, ask all those criminals about obeying the laws and getting gun training. Ask the pizza delivery drivers about how they would love to lay down their lives for their jobs. Cooperating with the demands of thieves DOES NOT GUARANTEE that they will not shoot you. They don’t want witnesses who can ID them to the police, who show up 10-15-20 minutes later. RESPONSIBLE gun owners, trained and practicing often, do not leave their guns lying around. Ask the woman who was stabbed 9 times by her husband while she was working how well the restraining order worked vs. the 72 yr old man who saved her by shooting and killing the husband in the act. It all boils down to taking responsibility for your choices. If we don’t take the responsibility for protecting ourselves and our loved ones seriously, then the bad guys win, continue to commit crimes including murder, rape, robbery, etc. Or, in worse case scenario, we become Germany, Russia, North Korea, or Mexico, where tyranny reigns.
dogday Premium Member about 9 years ago
A polite society does not need guns. An armed society does not need courtesy.
Mephistopheles about 9 years ago
I don’t own any guns (except for pellet rifles for varmit control) so this really isn’t something I care about from a personal sense of self protection.
But the 2nd Amendment guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms and I don’t want to deprive people of their rights just so a bunch of people don’t have to look at them.
Open carry laws don’t force YOU to carry a gun. They stop YOU from being a pain in the a$$ for the guy who chooses to exercise his rights.
They also don’t prevent YOU from demanding that there be no guns on YOUR private property.
I do have a problem with people who want to take away the rights of my neighbor so that they can feel safer/better/smarter/ more civilized/whatever.
Today it’s the second amendment. How long till those same people turn their eye on the First amendment because they don’t like what my neighbor says in public – OH YEAH, That’s right, it’s already happening.
If you want to stop people from carrying guns then I encourage you to convince the super majority of us that it requires to amend the constitution. Otherwise just wring your hands and tell us how upset you are because the guy in front of you at Starbucks has a Glock on his hip.
feverjr Premium Member about 9 years ago
Yes, you’re right. I see the governor just signed a bill that allows a family, to report a family member who threatens to use a gun to kill someone, and the police can confiscate the gun for up to 21 days. That’s just terrible, taking away the potential killer’s gun for 3 weeks. Oh the humanity…..
Dtroutma about 9 years ago
Phantom Marine: I was just referencing those “open carry” folks, not so much how many guns. BTW ten deadliest cities in the U.S., Chicago doesn’t come close to the list, but Miami (loose Florida gun laws) is a lot more deadly. Flint and Detroit are first and second, meaning poverty is what actually may make guns more dangerous? Then comes New Orleans and Baton Rouge St Louis, Birmingham in those high numbers, where gun availailty, poverty, and population packing play roles.
I live in a rural community where guns are very prevalent for hunting, predator control by ranchers/farmers, but “self defense” against our neighbors is NOT the reason. There are some big city areas I DO carry in, and I was in law enforcement.
My first year, my agency didn’t even carry guns, then concealed, finally “open carry” for our officers. I only drew my gun all the way out once, but never shot anyone. “Blarney” is a better tool for a police contact situation than bullets, and when your posture and voice intimidates the “bad guy”, far more effective than shooting them, and that INCLUDES bad guys who do have firearms or weapons. In law enforcment, OR SELF DEFENSE, you don’t make threats, you make PROMISES! And that does work!
KNOWING what you’re doing, and what your skills are, gives you confidence that bad guys can observe by your posture and actions, they don’t mess to try to find out what you DO know, that they don’t. I made over 1,200 felony arrests, not shooting anyone, and had only three folks who “hurt themselves” by challenging “authority” in the process of arrest.
“open carry” is stupid, and a guy carrying his zipper content on his hip, to compensate for what his fly doesn’t have to be very big to “conceal”.
bob.cloninger about 9 years ago
Yup, there are some jerks in every family. I support gun ownership, and discrete carry. Discrete because guns in general upset some people, so open carry would be bad manners. And honestly, if – as a civilian – I’m going someplace that requires carrying a semi-automatic rifle, I don’t want to go.
Mephistopheles about 9 years ago
@ahab – If you are going to bring race into the discussion I am going to have to ask if that individual would last any longer then my life expectancy should I decide to openly wear a firearm while ordering at a Popeyes just outside a housing project.
Some of us think the Anti-gun fanatics look an awful lot like the guy in the picture up above only they don’t have a rifle strapped to their back .
Dtroutma about 9 years ago
^Agree, SFC.
markjoseph125 about 9 years ago
“If a politician isn’t perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash — for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything — without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn’t your friend no matter what he tells you.” L. Neil Smith, libertarian gun nut.
markjoseph125 about 9 years ago
The word “most” near the beginning of your second paragraph is perhaps more telling than you’d like to think.What do the gun nuts say when Bubba Wackaloon shows off his manhood by shooting just to shoot, or when someone overreacts to a random motion, perceived as a threat by a mind that feels like it need to carry a gun in the first place?
Dtroutma about 9 years ago
mdavis: would you care to list those 39 states with no ill effects that haven’t recorded a single gun death between them all?? That’s a statement even too wierd if coming from the NRA.
noddin0ff about 9 years ago
What we need is less paranoia. -Just because you’re unarmed doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.-geez.