I recently saw former-KGB general Oleg Kalugin on one or another C-Span channel. He mentioned that Vladimir Putin had secretly conferred the highest Soviet award (Order of Lenin? Hero of the Republic?) on Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, executed atomic spies.
When people liken that era to a “witch hunt”, it is important to remember one big difference: witches aren’t real, but Communist spies in the U.S. government were, have been, and may still be.
I’d love to see more on the Putin/Rosenberg thing pschearer. i could not find anything on it. Don’t forget the Soviet Union ended about 8 years before Putin came to power, it’d be hard for him to award anything from the Soviet era. Maybe a medal from modern day Russia, but that’d be it. Can you find a link?
The current equivalent award is “Hero of the Russian Federation” Wikipedia lists 750 awardees, the Rosenbergs were not listed. But you did say it was a secret.
Dypak: Google was, as you apparently found, no help, although I was very surprised to see your question already listed!
Kalugin has been on C-Span many times, and I can’t be sure that this video is the same I saw (for example, nothing to imply a secret award as I remember it), but 42 minutes into
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/291635-1
Kalugin states that Putin, recently President, awarded the Rosenbergs “Hero of the Soviet Union”.
Kalugin is vague about the time frame, and he may be wrong about the name of the award. But he leaves no doubt the Rosenbergs were acting on behalf of the Soviet Union and Putin posthumously rewarded them. (The C-Span site is a bit tricky to navigate, but you might find Kalugin discussing it on other videos as well.)
Especially chilling is his description of what would have happened if Roosevelt had died while Henry Wallace was V.P., after which Soviet agents could have become Secretaries of State and Treasury.
Note that Putin has publicly denounced Kalugin as a traitor (or “trader” in the C-Span transcript). After that denunciation, Kalugin, who had run for office in Russia as a reformer, fled the country, got political asylum in the U.S., and eventually became a citizen here.
pschearer, when the KGB archives were made public, I believe the final score was that 2/3 of those accused of being communist spies were guilty (many having killed Americans to maintain their cover). On the other side of the coin, 1/3 were apparently innocent.
I maintain that the investigations were necessary, but that the standards of evidence needed to be higher before publicly accusing people.
SG: Not to excuse that drunken blowhard McCarthy, but people should remember the historical context of those times. With the end of WWII, the U.S. quickly drew down our troops around the world, but the Soviets used their massive army to absorb country after country in Europe, all the while telling the free world they planned to take it over.
Worse yet, while America was still contemplating the power we had unleashed with the atomic bomb, suddenly the Soviets had their own, threatening us with the same devastation we used to end the war with the Japanese.
So it is no wonder Americans panicked in the face of such a threat. Unfortunately, that opened the door to a jerk like McCarthy, who in his way was the best ally the Soviets had.
As for the claim that 1/3 of those accused were innocent, that is the first I’ve ever heard of it in a life heavily influenced by the Cold War.
(I can, however, easily believe that many were damaged by innocent associations with guilty people. I’m thinking of John W. Mauchly, co-inventor of the Eniac and co-founder of Univac who lost his security clearance because of some pro-Red meeting he attended in the 1930s as a professor when Communism was the intellectual flavor of the month. Without a security clearance, Univac could not get classified computer business, greatly hindering the company’s growth.)
margueritem over 14 years ago
Readied that toxic waste….
sydney over 14 years ago
Good point ! As they would say in Cricket … ”caught in the slips” !
aerwalt over 14 years ago
Any more monstrous than Napalm?
wndrwrthg over 14 years ago
Chlorine, Phosgene and Mustard too Now something that turns you into goo And war in all its glory Is never neat only gory
Durak Premium Member over 14 years ago
Wait for it….
pschearer Premium Member over 14 years ago
I recently saw former-KGB general Oleg Kalugin on one or another C-Span channel. He mentioned that Vladimir Putin had secretly conferred the highest Soviet award (Order of Lenin? Hero of the Republic?) on Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, executed atomic spies.
When people liken that era to a “witch hunt”, it is important to remember one big difference: witches aren’t real, but Communist spies in the U.S. government were, have been, and may still be.
Durak Premium Member over 14 years ago
I’d love to see more on the Putin/Rosenberg thing pschearer. i could not find anything on it. Don’t forget the Soviet Union ended about 8 years before Putin came to power, it’d be hard for him to award anything from the Soviet era. Maybe a medal from modern day Russia, but that’d be it. Can you find a link?
The current equivalent award is “Hero of the Russian Federation” Wikipedia lists 750 awardees, the Rosenbergs were not listed. But you did say it was a secret.
pschearer Premium Member over 14 years ago
Dypak: Google was, as you apparently found, no help, although I was very surprised to see your question already listed!
Kalugin has been on C-Span many times, and I can’t be sure that this video is the same I saw (for example, nothing to imply a secret award as I remember it), but 42 minutes into
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/291635-1
Kalugin states that Putin, recently President, awarded the Rosenbergs “Hero of the Soviet Union”.
Kalugin is vague about the time frame, and he may be wrong about the name of the award. But he leaves no doubt the Rosenbergs were acting on behalf of the Soviet Union and Putin posthumously rewarded them. (The C-Span site is a bit tricky to navigate, but you might find Kalugin discussing it on other videos as well.)
Especially chilling is his description of what would have happened if Roosevelt had died while Henry Wallace was V.P., after which Soviet agents could have become Secretaries of State and Treasury.
Note that Putin has publicly denounced Kalugin as a traitor (or “trader” in the C-Span transcript). After that denunciation, Kalugin, who had run for office in Russia as a reformer, fled the country, got political asylum in the U.S., and eventually became a citizen here.
stuart over 14 years ago
pschearer, when the KGB archives were made public, I believe the final score was that 2/3 of those accused of being communist spies were guilty (many having killed Americans to maintain their cover). On the other side of the coin, 1/3 were apparently innocent.
I maintain that the investigations were necessary, but that the standards of evidence needed to be higher before publicly accusing people.
pschearer Premium Member over 14 years ago
SG: Not to excuse that drunken blowhard McCarthy, but people should remember the historical context of those times. With the end of WWII, the U.S. quickly drew down our troops around the world, but the Soviets used their massive army to absorb country after country in Europe, all the while telling the free world they planned to take it over.
Worse yet, while America was still contemplating the power we had unleashed with the atomic bomb, suddenly the Soviets had their own, threatening us with the same devastation we used to end the war with the Japanese.
So it is no wonder Americans panicked in the face of such a threat. Unfortunately, that opened the door to a jerk like McCarthy, who in his way was the best ally the Soviets had.
As for the claim that 1/3 of those accused were innocent, that is the first I’ve ever heard of it in a life heavily influenced by the Cold War.
(I can, however, easily believe that many were damaged by innocent associations with guilty people. I’m thinking of John W. Mauchly, co-inventor of the Eniac and co-founder of Univac who lost his security clearance because of some pro-Red meeting he attended in the 1930s as a professor when Communism was the intellectual flavor of the month. Without a security clearance, Univac could not get classified computer business, greatly hindering the company’s growth.)
davidf42 over 5 years ago
Morning, Anniephans!