Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for May 21, 2010

I didn’t know GT was a Oakland A’s fan!!

Afghanistan declared was upon us as did the Japanese on 12/7/1941, by killing a whole bunch of our people. We had tasked the Taliban to turn over OBL and his posse, but they refused. So they had to take their lumps when OBL attacked us from their nation. We again demanded OBL after 9/11 and they again refused, so tango freaking sierra.

The CIA set up OBL in business in the first place, during the Soviet period. Afghanistan did not attack the USA. Most of the people implicated in 911 were from Saudi Arabia. The Bushes had a long term business relationship with the bin Laden family. But if you like revising history, go right ahead.

Joe, why can’t you just say that YOU don’t approve of the war? How would you know what your God approves of? After all, he might have changed his mind in the last 2000 years. Of course, you might say that in that case you’d have to find a different God to believe in, but that rather takes the point out of having a God. Face it, we all create our morals, not God. And a good thing, too.

Don’t forget that the German army went into WW II wearing belt buckles that said GOTT MIT UNS, which translates to God’s with us.

The usual rule God appears to follow is to be on the side of the big battalions.

Let’s be clear on a couple of things. The vast majority of the 9/11 attackers were from Saudi Arabia (as is OBL). The training grounds were indeed in Afghanistan, but the nation of Afghanistan did not send them, nor did they declare war on us. Should we have gone into Afghanistan as we did? The invasion of Afghanistan yielded no good results, as they did not touch OBL, nor did they really get rid of the Taliban which is making a comeback. So whether it was justified or not is moot - it was a waste of lives, a lot of whom were innocent. And gee, we’ve killed a lot more Afghan civilians than were killed on 9/11.

Iraq is another story. Every Christian denomination (including President Bush’s Methodists) except for the Southern Baptists declared an invasion of Iraq to be unjust and against all Christian principles. Iraq never threatened us, had nothing to do with 9/11 and had cooperated with the UN inspectors in the end.

Actually, Joe-Allen, Grandpa Prescott Bush was still doing business with Hitler and fronting for a German industrialist in 1942 when the Union Banking Corporation, of which he was a director, was seized under the Trading with the Enemy act. The Bush dynasty goes back at least three generations in both oil and politics. Prescott Bush was a US senator and has a long history of nefarious deeds and dealings.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar or google Hitler “Prescott Bush”

Sins of the father.

Gott mit Uns

One war is justified by God. Another is not.

I think it is wonderful when we talk to God.

I think they have medication and restraints for people who God talks to.

Isn’t it wonderful that SOME know the Divine Will?

Sheik: Yes, well, proves my point, doesn’t it? Seems they were mistaken.

pouncingtiger said:

“I didn’t know GT was a Oakland A’s fan!!”

One doesn’t need to be an As fan to appreciate the accomplishment.

Exactly. A real baseball fan appreciates miracles wherever they occur. But if the Cubs win the Series this year, I’m looking for those 6 horses to come riding by my house any day now.

Every army (in generic terms) tries to prove God is on their side (okay, communist countries not so much, but other than that…). The US certainly did - think “in God we trust” put on our coins during the Civil War - and does. It is repulsive. But my thinking it’s repulsive isn’t going to make it stop.

GBT is delving into the “Why do bad things happen to good people” debate. LEt’s see the fundies start talking about plans, destiny, free will….etc.

Ah, potr, you won’t find a lot of fundies here. If you ever listened to them, you’d know there are no good people, only saved and unsaved and “bad’ things often result in people getting saved and the saved questioning their faith and coming out stronger. Jesus simply explained that you need to ask why EVERYONE isn’t wiped out by disaster instead of asking why SOME are. You eventually get to the grace of God.

Actually, a lot of Christian involvement in war comes from Catholic teaching of Augustine on the Just War. it essentially is the teaching of a government-church apologist and shows the GREEK influence on the early state church as opposed to the Jewish/Christian influence. Demos the disaster that occurs when mythologies and their “logic” get mixed with Christianity.

Hitler was a Theosophist. that belief systems borrows from many including Christianity. It also believes in horoscopes and other things Christianity does not. It most heavily borrows from Hinduism and the Aryan myth. Again showing what happens when myth gets into the mix. (Incidentally, Hitler was a member of the Catholic Church if the records the atheists circulate on UT are correct. Pot Stirring 101.)

It’s a NOT being a REAL fundie that generally causes the problems, potr. Fundamentals are essential on anything. Try doing trig without geometry.

nagut: “we create our morals”? So Sociology, anthropology and most of psychology is wrong? You aren’t just shooting at the Bible, you’re shooting at years of study by academics many atheists, who would say otherwise.

Rock on Dallas.

I question anyone who claim to speak for God. If you say god spoke to you I will listent. But no one speaks for him.

Looks like GT’s gentle and affectionate satire has sparked another debate over poorly defined absolutes, such as the injustice of every war (the Christian liberals), trust in Providence (the probabilitarians as well as true believers), and the superfluousness of God (the village atheists).

I won’t answer those postings but will contribute this shrewd moral truth from Voltaire, who was trying to explain ‘why bad things happen to good people’–in V’s case, the Lisbon earthquake.

An agnostic himself (some called him an atheist), Voltaire said: “We should be careful about denying that God exists. If there’s no God to blame for the evils we suffer, we’re going to have to blame someone else.”

Who incited or abetted the evil of 9/11? God? the F.B.I.? the Taliban? Saddam? or (my choice) the House of Saud and its gang of Arabs whom Bush helped to flee the country during the weeks our air space was closed? Bush should have put them all in custody and made them account for having paid off Osama and bribed him to deflect his attacks from them to the U.S. instead.

God gave us free will. By definition that means we must make our own mistakes.

I think the chaplain did a nice job of faux-catholic - seems her goal was to get this poor guy comfortable enough to talk. As a 50 year Roman Catholic I think I can forgive her this terrible transgression ; )

I am SO impressed with the level of intelligence that many of the commenters must have. Are you all professors? Right or left, whether I agree or not, religious or not, you seem to have the courage of your convictions. I’m noting the Voltaire comment for my next Bible study, so thanks, Palin, for that quote.

PS: Should I tell them I got it off a comic strip blog?

@Mythreesons

The level of seriousness found on this blog is a reflection of Garry Trudeau’s generally thoughtful and mildly satirical view of the world. Readers who just visit GT’s strip for comic diversion can usually find it, and they probably won’t bother to click the “Comments” button unless they’re puzzled by something in the strip (as I often am).

^They tried to do it to Joan of Arc.

Thanks, cdward - you beat me to both of your comments!

nagut. I agree. Human Beings create morals. We must. It is necessary and proper to do so. To live together well in this world we need to name the things we love and care about and provide effective guidelines to preserve them.

The project is ongoing. How we articulate the truth changes as our perceptions and understanding change. Adding a God “layer” and/or insisting that our moral list must not change is irresponsible.

Moral dialogue is difficult if not impossible if we don’t own our own loves and cares. Putting what we care about off on God is, in the end, dishonest.

I appreciate your challenge to Justin (it is Justin). However I doubt that in his present situation he’d understand it. The present culture makes it very difficult to think outside the “God Box.” Escaping the “Box” takes time.

Justin may be taking just the first step towards really understanding what he believes. The reason he is taking this terrifying step is the terrible REALLITY of war. That reality does NOT change regardless of the war’s necessity or “Goodness.”

He will need all the help he can get. Right now the Chaplin, regardless of what SHE believes, may be part of that help.

Joe-Allen “Joe” Doty said, about 13 hours ago

But, the God in whom I believe and apparently the one in whom the Chaplain believes wouldn’t have approved of any fighting in Afghanistan nor Iraq.

Neither country declared war on the USA.

we’re not fighting the countrys,,,it’s the redical terrorist who attacked our country and countrymen, that we’re fighting who are hiding in these countrys

freeholder– re: your rebuttal to “we create our morals”.

What Sociology 1, Anthropology 1, Psychology 1 classes did you take? I would love to have a copy of your reading list.

“The Way” is known in Chinese as “Tao” (pronounced ‘Dao’, nothing to do with chemicals). See Tao Te Ching purportedly written by Lao Tzu as he was leaving the country in disappointment.

The personal effort to follow a gentle Way of being is also reflected in the mainstream Muslim use of ‘jihad’, the inner war against our more base urges, and worthy of encouragement.

Always be wary of those who would set one group against another; ‘Divide and Conquer’ has worked well for milllenia.

I love seeing A’s/Giants references on the doonesburry forum. Keep up the good posts pouncingtiger.

Yerbouti, maybe the Germans should have had bigger buckles that said: Ach zu lieber Gott!

Well there’s a lot of steam going on here ~ probably enough to start an electric generator. I enjoy being a Christian chaplain and pastor. It enables me to bring peace and hope to people who are caught up in wars that are worldwide and wars that exist between couples. Both I sense come from our desire to be god. But God loves; He doesn’t pull down as most humans are want to do in order that they are elevated. There’s a lot of unanswered questions out there and there will always be because who of us has the infinite understanding to understand an infinite god. God bless you all!

As the Dylan song goes “If God is on our side, he’ll stop the next war.” So, MY God doesn’t approve of war either.

Dallas Braden -Great

It’s easy to say we can’t understand the ways of an infinite god. It makes up for the inconsistencies in the Christian doctrines created by men in the decades and centuries after Jesus’ death. Credentialed ministers study these inconsistencies in Biblical textual criticism courses but fail to pass this information on to their congregations for whatever reason. Thus, the Christian myth gets perpetuated without question.