Johanan: “if I were Sir Dudley, I’d be more upset at being called “close enough” and “almost-Anglican”. Most Scotsmen I have ever heard of would be.”
Definitely.
I recall an affirmative-action meeting at my former employer, many years ago. The speaker spent an hour or so carefully differentiating all the various flavors of Hispanic and explaining why you don’t want to call a Cuban a Mexican or vice-versa (each group views it as an insult). I noticed the speaker was consistently referring to all of us in the audience as “Anglos.” I raised my hand and pointed out that “Anglo” is a blanket term meaning “English,” and that as a person of Irish descent I viewed the term as a serious insult. Y’know, little things like six centuries of occupation, the Potato Famine, forced emigration, that kind of stuff…
Perhaps the problem is not the person portrayed as persisting in pervasive, punishable points of persiflage, but the perpetrator who is peddling the page. We would want Wodan and his Walkuries to wup his widdle watoosi until he wakes up and walks without waging war on the world’s wernacular.
@puddleglum, I agree: just call a Korean or Japanese a Chinese, or anything like that, mix the different Hispanic flavors, or Native Americans, and you are in deep doo-doo. But all whites (Anglos) are the same…
Have you ever read How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev?
Because of the weirdness with the website not loading this comic on Monday, MythTickle’s posting schedule this week will be Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday.
Cheers.
Oh, and when Hermod said “CLOSE”, he was speaking geographically, not culturally. Dudley understood that.
I recently read Beowulf, but the translation made little effort to imitate Anglo-Saxon alliteration. At least the version we read some of in high school had Grendel “break his bone-box”, AKA the ribcage.
The edition I just read had the translation and original side by side. Be thankful that languages get to change or we’d still be struggling with grammatic gender and all those extra cases that just take up brain real-estate we could use for better things.
pschearer–good point about the alliteration. Hermod’s speaking poetry, Old English/Norse/Germanic style, where “poetry” means “meter and alliteration.” Latin-derived languages (Italian, Spanish, French, etc.) do poetry through meter and rhyme.
The Norman Conquest introduced a lot of French into the English language, including the “meter and rhyme” approach to poetry (which eventually took over). The great epic Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is an interesting transitional piece–the major part of each stanza is in the Germanic-style of meter and alliteration, but each stanza ends with five lines of French-style rhyming poetry, in (if I recall correctly) a fairly sophisticated A-B-A-B-B scheme. Simon Armitage’s 2007 translation captures this rather neatly.
Of course, if Dudley runs into a Hebrew afterlife, the poetry’s really going to drive him nuts, as Hebrew poetry is based on repetition, repetition, and more repetition…
@Skulker, it seems that, speaking for self, such sentences simply spew speedily in a sort of superfluity of spontaneous statements. It is, so far as I see, simply the silly style at which some sentenients (such as I seem to be) have a certain skill.
“Of course, if Dudley runs into a Hebrew afterlife, the poetry’s really going to drive him nuts, as Hebrew poetry is based on repetition, repetition, and more repetition…”
Wrong. (I say that with a smile, but it’s still wrong. )
It’s often said that biblical Hebrew poetry is based on parallelism, but that is an incredible oversimplication. Part of the problem in discerning that is that something that was always a vital part of it, the melodic rendition, was lost in practice when the Second Temple fell. But that was preserved in the Masoretic Text (despite the Masoretes, to a large degree) and rediscovered in 1976.
I invite you to check out the real structure of biblical Hebrew sacred poetry (which was always sung) on my dedicated blog article:
gulfcoastgrl over 14 years ago
His flag sure defrosted with that surge of Pissedoffedness. (spell check hating me..lol)
Rakkav over 14 years ago
Well, that’s one way to break the ice (in more than one way, in fact).
if I were Sir Dudley, I’d be more upset at being called “close enough” and “almost-Anglican”. Most Scotsmen I have ever heard of would be.
BigDaveGlass over 14 years ago
Aye yer right there….
mntim over 14 years ago
Alliteration with vowels is actually assonance, which is still annoying.
Simon_Jester over 14 years ago
Dudley, a Scots knight?
Oh-ohhhh, eh? Well tha’ explains a lot then, dun’ it, Jimmy?
puddleglum1066 over 14 years ago
Johanan: “if I were Sir Dudley, I’d be more upset at being called “close enough” and “almost-Anglican”. Most Scotsmen I have ever heard of would be.”
Definitely.
I recall an affirmative-action meeting at my former employer, many years ago. The speaker spent an hour or so carefully differentiating all the various flavors of Hispanic and explaining why you don’t want to call a Cuban a Mexican or vice-versa (each group views it as an insult). I noticed the speaker was consistently referring to all of us in the audience as “Anglos.” I raised my hand and pointed out that “Anglo” is a blanket term meaning “English,” and that as a person of Irish descent I viewed the term as a serious insult. Y’know, little things like six centuries of occupation, the Potato Famine, forced emigration, that kind of stuff…
As you might guess, the speaker didn’t get it.
bmonk over 14 years ago
Perhaps the problem is not the person portrayed as persisting in pervasive, punishable points of persiflage, but the perpetrator who is peddling the page. We would want Wodan and his Walkuries to wup his widdle watoosi until he wakes up and walks without waging war on the world’s wernacular.
bmonk over 14 years ago
@puddleglum, I agree: just call a Korean or Japanese a Chinese, or anything like that, mix the different Hispanic flavors, or Native Americans, and you are in deep doo-doo. But all whites (Anglos) are the same…
Have you ever read How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev?
Coyoty Premium Member over 14 years ago
Thank Woden it’s too cold for Annie May the enemy anemone to show up.
Sisyphos over 14 years ago
Been reading Beowulf, I believe, Jocular Justin! Olde Anglishe!
You have unleashed your word-horde!
Justjoust Premium Member over 14 years ago
Because of the weirdness with the website not loading this comic on Monday, MythTickle’s posting schedule this week will be Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday. Cheers.
Oh, and when Hermod said “CLOSE”, he was speaking geographically, not culturally. Dudley understood that.
ladywolf17 over 14 years ago
Keep searching!
TheSkulker over 14 years ago
bmonk Love it!!! Not one but TWO!!!
pschearer Premium Member over 14 years ago
I recently read Beowulf, but the translation made little effort to imitate Anglo-Saxon alliteration. At least the version we read some of in high school had Grendel “break his bone-box”, AKA the ribcage.
The edition I just read had the translation and original side by side. Be thankful that languages get to change or we’d still be struggling with grammatic gender and all those extra cases that just take up brain real-estate we could use for better things.
puddleglum1066 over 14 years ago
pschearer–good point about the alliteration. Hermod’s speaking poetry, Old English/Norse/Germanic style, where “poetry” means “meter and alliteration.” Latin-derived languages (Italian, Spanish, French, etc.) do poetry through meter and rhyme.
The Norman Conquest introduced a lot of French into the English language, including the “meter and rhyme” approach to poetry (which eventually took over). The great epic Sir Gawain and the Green Knight is an interesting transitional piece–the major part of each stanza is in the Germanic-style of meter and alliteration, but each stanza ends with five lines of French-style rhyming poetry, in (if I recall correctly) a fairly sophisticated A-B-A-B-B scheme. Simon Armitage’s 2007 translation captures this rather neatly.
Of course, if Dudley runs into a Hebrew afterlife, the poetry’s really going to drive him nuts, as Hebrew poetry is based on repetition, repetition, and more repetition…
bmonk over 14 years ago
@Skulker, it seems that, speaking for self, such sentences simply spew speedily in a sort of superfluity of spontaneous statements. It is, so far as I see, simply the silly style at which some sentenients (such as I seem to be) have a certain skill.
chairump Premium Member over 14 years ago
And her … Sparkle Farkle
Jonathan Lemon creator over 14 years ago
Technically Dudley should identify himself as British. I know I would.
Rakkav over 14 years ago
Hey puddlglum: You wrote:
“Of course, if Dudley runs into a Hebrew afterlife, the poetry’s really going to drive him nuts, as Hebrew poetry is based on repetition, repetition, and more repetition…”
Wrong. (I say that with a smile, but it’s still wrong. )
It’s often said that biblical Hebrew poetry is based on parallelism, but that is an incredible oversimplication. Part of the problem in discerning that is that something that was always a vital part of it, the melodic rendition, was lost in practice when the Second Temple fell. But that was preserved in the Masoretic Text (despite the Masoretes, to a large degree) and rediscovered in 1976.
I invite you to check out the real structure of biblical Hebrew sacred poetry (which was always sung) on my dedicated blog article:
The Syntax of Prosodia and Psalmodia