(I got the Loon reference because of Canadian money 1 CD$ coin is a ‘Loonie’. Somehow I’m proud of the fact I knew it. Oh boy, I’m pleased by so little)
Our fearless Feds are waving supplies on in to the camp, along with kids. I think they should have cut power and stopped anything and anyone from going in, and surround the place with loudspeakers playing a repeated music box of the Brahms lullaby. Or maybe Mr. Rogers, if they think it’s possible to get any sense of decency into these treasonous, self-serving terrorist thieves.
The righties want all Federal Land privatized because, so they claim, they want to, ’give it back to the people."Yeah right, the 1% percent people, who then promptly throw up barbed wire and no trespassing signs to keep the rabble out.[]http://www.hcn.org/articles/quack-attack-ducks-unlimited-fires-writer-over-stream-access-fracas
1. Public domain lands have NEVER BELONGED to anyone but the taxpayers, known as “the government”.
2. Bundy still owes around a million dollars in unpaid fees for grazing at $1.35 an AUM valued at $8-11 per AUM, cheating the taxpayers even if he’d paid.
3. If these were ARMED Muslim extremists, going back to the Bundy supporter sniper on the bridge in Nevada, how many bullet holes would they have in them already??
4. Armed insurrection is both treason, and terrorism, period. They deserve NO support.
@dtroutma – You and I are in agreement with the concept that the Federal Lands belong to all of us and are not singled out for particular taxpayers that happen to live in close proximity. (Our agreement being a rarity indeed)
These Ranchers have developed a rural myth amongst themselves that the public lands in their vicinity are semi-private and that they can do with them as they please.
Their armed tantrum is misguided and unfortunate but it does not rise to the level of treason. They aren’t trying to overthrow the government or take out a leader. They are trying to bring attention to their political position misguided as that position may be.
Personally, I want them to get all the attention they think they so richly deserve so they can be unmasked for the thieves and thugs they really are.
^A note: Article III section 3 of the Constitution: “The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or property belonging to the United States…”. All federal land law disposing of lands mandated that when sold, the profit to the states shall be used for public education.
The Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 confirmed that retention of federal ownership of the public domain was in the best interest of the nation and TAXPAYERS who ARE “the government”. Bundy and his thieving friends do NOT “own” the land, we, all of us do.
BTW: I only have 31 years experience managing those lands and adjudicating disposals or leases, so the fact all the Bundy clan hasn’t been in prison for some time now for violations of the law disturbs me, and it goes back several administrations, not just Obama, or even “W”.
They have NO STANDING under the law, or even regulations, to support their claims, as they’ve long been in violation of both.
My travels through western publicly owned ranch land indicates considerable overgrazing with unproductive weeds and sage brush replacing native grass species. Seems many of these protesters not only believe in freeloading, they are not good stewards of the land. More effective conservation practices are needed or much of the land will revert to deserts.
Gypsy 8: The law (Taylor Grazing Act) defines grazing public land as a PRIVILEGE, not a “right”. It also says an AUM is one cow, one horse, or five sheep. BLM regulations say that “cow” becomes a cow- and a calf- which means in places like most Oregon ranchers who are cow/calf operations, not really producing beef on the hoof, graze that calf through its most active growth period, for FREE! So the regulation, NOT law, is an immediate giveaway to western ranchers.
Yes grazing regulations have been giving away even more over the years. Also, Nevada has terribly overgrazed public lands (so does Harney county btw)especially where “cooperative agreements” have essentially allowed the ranchers to even further give themselves what they want. I’ve watched degradation for over 40 years, and yes, a small minority of ranchers ARE RESPSONSIBLE, but as corporates have taken over, the power of their lobbying has tied public land managers hands when it comes to actually enforcing both law, and regulations.
I retired some time ago, but watching the decline was getting worse when I was till active, and has only gotten worse since. Appointments of “yes men, and women” to management positions hasn’t helped a bit. I used to disagree with some managers, but they had the integrity back then to stand up when the facts indicated they needed to change their decisions, that basically doesn’t happen anymore.
The Bundy family is just one, most radical, evidence of this. I’m simply livid they weren’t jailed a long time ago, Clevon first, now all of them.
MephistophelesWell, technically they aren’t trying to take over the government, they have succeeded – by the old Soviet method of salami tactics: a grassland prairie here, a wildlife refuge there, a government building over yonder, until after as series of “incidents not worth bothering about”, they have the whole thing. Article III, paragraph 3 clearly defines treason, and they are certainly levying war [recruiting and training troops] against the United States. Washington took action against Shay as Commander in Chief of a nationalized “well-regulated militia”. Now the corporate media defines “militia” as any armed mob – as long as it is white and anti-American.
@hippogriff – I’m not looking to split hairs on this issue but I think we must all be VERY careful that we don’t call it treason at the point where one or more disgruntled citizens are protesting a government act and one or more of them has a gun.
Otherwise the government can crack down on ANY protest that they find annoying or inconvenient.
I’m sure there were protesters in Ferguson and Baltimore that were armed and voicing angry opposition to government policies that they found objectionable but we most certainly did not call that treason. Many of those Ferguson and Baltimore protesters were looters and thugs just like the Oregon gang but we tolerated their tantrum and allowed them to cool down before we took those areas back in hand.
I want the Oregon group (Y’all keda) to be afforded the same time to cool off and vent their spleen to the press. They will probably disband on their own once they see how the are perceived by the average American citizen.
I watched with Horror as Janet Reno sent the tanks and flamethrowers into the Waco compound and that was the wrong answer. If you want them to give up just isolate the compound and let them run out of food. Eventually they will get hungry enough and they will give up without any bloodshed. I know they claim they have years worth of food but I would be very surprised if they have more then a month or so.
Two final observations: The family at the heart of this bruhaha must be very well off. They paid a $400,000 fine for arson without having to sell assets. They are very generous in their community & at least have the sense to distance themselves from the Occupy Nowhere nuts.The Bundys & other seem to be motivated by a bit of Mormon Scripture. Mainstream Mormon leaders have disavowed this interpretation.
MephistophelesIt is not splitting hairs. I didn’t call it treason, the Constitution did. They are not a “peaceful protest” because no one has fired a shot [yet, that the sympathetic corporate media has reported, etc.]. They are armed, they have threatened violence, they are recruiting others to join them. That is a poor precedent to use against unarmed demonstrators infiltrated by a few agents prevocateur..Uncle Joe and Night-Gaunt49So the armed mob stealing my (and your) land in Oregon isn’t Shay. Shall I up it a bit to those drunken frat boys in Charleston who fired on the SS Star supplying Ft. Sumpter? Boys will be boys, so that didn’t matter, did it? Maybe Eisenhower shouldn’t have taken away Faubus’ private army by nationalizing the Arkansas Guard and sending the 82nd Airborne. How many examples do you need?
Reppr Premium Member over 8 years ago
Correct with this one!
ART Thompson Premium Member over 8 years ago
Pun of the year.
Crabbyrino Premium Member over 8 years ago
Western ranchers have billed the “gubmint” on ranging fees for years. Now, when the Feds finally want what is reasonable, these vigilantes storm in.
OmqR-IV.0 over 8 years ago
Frigging terrorists.
(I got the Loon reference because of Canadian money 1 CD$ coin is a ‘Loonie’. Somehow I’m proud of the fact I knew it. Oh boy, I’m pleased by so little)
lonecat over 8 years ago
Is this what the Constitution calls a “well-regulated militia”?
Kip W over 8 years ago
Our fearless Feds are waving supplies on in to the camp, along with kids. I think they should have cut power and stopped anything and anyone from going in, and surround the place with loudspeakers playing a repeated music box of the Brahms lullaby. Or maybe Mr. Rogers, if they think it’s possible to get any sense of decency into these treasonous, self-serving terrorist thieves.
superposition over 8 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_lands
Simon_Jester over 8 years ago
The righties want all Federal Land privatized because, so they claim, they want to, ’give it back to the people."Yeah right, the 1% percent people, who then promptly throw up barbed wire and no trespassing signs to keep the rabble out.[]http://www.hcn.org/articles/quack-attack-ducks-unlimited-fires-writer-over-stream-access-fracas
booktrout over 8 years ago
Seems like America’s isis….locals don’t want them there, and they’re itching to enact change by violence.
AnnDeeQ over 8 years ago
Ruby Ridge happened on George H.W. Bush’s watch. Are you saying he was on the left? Compared to the current Republican candidates, I suppose he was.
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
1. Public domain lands have NEVER BELONGED to anyone but the taxpayers, known as “the government”.
2. Bundy still owes around a million dollars in unpaid fees for grazing at $1.35 an AUM valued at $8-11 per AUM, cheating the taxpayers even if he’d paid.
3. If these were ARMED Muslim extremists, going back to the Bundy supporter sniper on the bridge in Nevada, how many bullet holes would they have in them already??
4. Armed insurrection is both treason, and terrorism, period. They deserve NO support.
Mephistopheles over 8 years ago
@dtroutma – You and I are in agreement with the concept that the Federal Lands belong to all of us and are not singled out for particular taxpayers that happen to live in close proximity. (Our agreement being a rarity indeed)
These Ranchers have developed a rural myth amongst themselves that the public lands in their vicinity are semi-private and that they can do with them as they please.
Their armed tantrum is misguided and unfortunate but it does not rise to the level of treason. They aren’t trying to overthrow the government or take out a leader. They are trying to bring attention to their political position misguided as that position may be.
Personally, I want them to get all the attention they think they so richly deserve so they can be unmasked for the thieves and thugs they really are.
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
^A note: Article III section 3 of the Constitution: “The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or property belonging to the United States…”. All federal land law disposing of lands mandated that when sold, the profit to the states shall be used for public education.
The Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 confirmed that retention of federal ownership of the public domain was in the best interest of the nation and TAXPAYERS who ARE “the government”. Bundy and his thieving friends do NOT “own” the land, we, all of us do.
BTW: I only have 31 years experience managing those lands and adjudicating disposals or leases, so the fact all the Bundy clan hasn’t been in prison for some time now for violations of the law disturbs me, and it goes back several administrations, not just Obama, or even “W”.
They have NO STANDING under the law, or even regulations, to support their claims, as they’ve long been in violation of both.
Gypsy8 over 8 years ago
My travels through western publicly owned ranch land indicates considerable overgrazing with unproductive weeds and sage brush replacing native grass species. Seems many of these protesters not only believe in freeloading, they are not good stewards of the land. More effective conservation practices are needed or much of the land will revert to deserts.
Dtroutma over 8 years ago
Gypsy 8: The law (Taylor Grazing Act) defines grazing public land as a PRIVILEGE, not a “right”. It also says an AUM is one cow, one horse, or five sheep. BLM regulations say that “cow” becomes a cow- and a calf- which means in places like most Oregon ranchers who are cow/calf operations, not really producing beef on the hoof, graze that calf through its most active growth period, for FREE! So the regulation, NOT law, is an immediate giveaway to western ranchers.
Yes grazing regulations have been giving away even more over the years. Also, Nevada has terribly overgrazed public lands (so does Harney county btw)especially where “cooperative agreements” have essentially allowed the ranchers to even further give themselves what they want. I’ve watched degradation for over 40 years, and yes, a small minority of ranchers ARE RESPSONSIBLE, but as corporates have taken over, the power of their lobbying has tied public land managers hands when it comes to actually enforcing both law, and regulations.
I retired some time ago, but watching the decline was getting worse when I was till active, and has only gotten worse since. Appointments of “yes men, and women” to management positions hasn’t helped a bit. I used to disagree with some managers, but they had the integrity back then to stand up when the facts indicated they needed to change their decisions, that basically doesn’t happen anymore.
The Bundy family is just one, most radical, evidence of this. I’m simply livid they weren’t jailed a long time ago, Clevon first, now all of them.
hippogriff over 8 years ago
MephistophelesWell, technically they aren’t trying to take over the government, they have succeeded – by the old Soviet method of salami tactics: a grassland prairie here, a wildlife refuge there, a government building over yonder, until after as series of “incidents not worth bothering about”, they have the whole thing. Article III, paragraph 3 clearly defines treason, and they are certainly levying war [recruiting and training troops] against the United States. Washington took action against Shay as Commander in Chief of a nationalized “well-regulated militia”. Now the corporate media defines “militia” as any armed mob – as long as it is white and anti-American.
Mephistopheles over 8 years ago
@hippogriff – I’m not looking to split hairs on this issue but I think we must all be VERY careful that we don’t call it treason at the point where one or more disgruntled citizens are protesting a government act and one or more of them has a gun.
Otherwise the government can crack down on ANY protest that they find annoying or inconvenient.
I’m sure there were protesters in Ferguson and Baltimore that were armed and voicing angry opposition to government policies that they found objectionable but we most certainly did not call that treason. Many of those Ferguson and Baltimore protesters were looters and thugs just like the Oregon gang but we tolerated their tantrum and allowed them to cool down before we took those areas back in hand.
I want the Oregon group (Y’all keda) to be afforded the same time to cool off and vent their spleen to the press. They will probably disband on their own once they see how the are perceived by the average American citizen.
I watched with Horror as Janet Reno sent the tanks and flamethrowers into the Waco compound and that was the wrong answer. If you want them to give up just isolate the compound and let them run out of food. Eventually they will get hungry enough and they will give up without any bloodshed. I know they claim they have years worth of food but I would be very surprised if they have more then a month or so.
ruthkando over 8 years ago
I love this, Clay!
Uncle Joe Premium Member over 8 years ago
Two final observations: The family at the heart of this bruhaha must be very well off. They paid a $400,000 fine for arson without having to sell assets. They are very generous in their community & at least have the sense to distance themselves from the Occupy Nowhere nuts.The Bundys & other seem to be motivated by a bit of Mormon Scripture. Mainstream Mormon leaders have disavowed this interpretation.
hippogriff over 8 years ago
MephistophelesIt is not splitting hairs. I didn’t call it treason, the Constitution did. They are not a “peaceful protest” because no one has fired a shot [yet, that the sympathetic corporate media has reported, etc.]. They are armed, they have threatened violence, they are recruiting others to join them. That is a poor precedent to use against unarmed demonstrators infiltrated by a few agents prevocateur..Uncle Joe and Night-Gaunt49So the armed mob stealing my (and your) land in Oregon isn’t Shay. Shall I up it a bit to those drunken frat boys in Charleston who fired on the SS Star supplying Ft. Sumpter? Boys will be boys, so that didn’t matter, did it? Maybe Eisenhower shouldn’t have taken away Faubus’ private army by nationalizing the Arkansas Guard and sending the 82nd Airborne. How many examples do you need?