At this point, it’s better to pretend the word “Machiavellian” is simply unrelated to Machiavelli. Still, the derogatory connotations of the word have been in place for at least 400 years…
Oh, I dunno. The idea of “To kill the King is to become the King” goes back a looooong way. Perhaps killing the Buddha on the road is a necessary step towards enlightenment; at a certain point you have to abandon the idea of following anybody, in order to take responsibility for your own destination (you can’t enter Nirvana riding on another’s shoulders). If the Buddha you meet IS a real Buddha, killing him will do him no harm.
Before enlightenment - chop wood, kill Buddha.After enlightenment - chop wood, kill Buddha.
Fritz: To take the Zen to the correct place ( since there isn’t one in Zen, that’s a joke.) “If you meet the Buddha. kill the Buddha” Was interpreted by it’s “sayer” to mean that you have to find your own way. Going after the B’s Way would do you no good. Eliminate him as your pattern and idol. Like Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kwan Do philosophy of becoming proficient at one form then casting aside the form to become the fighter YOU are.
And killing ANYONE in that philosophy does them no harm since they will be back to correct their errors at a later date.
This is profoundly different for Christian beliefs of Jesus as the pattern though it certainly fits a lot of what is mistaught in churches today.
And, guys, when you write the book “The Prince” who becomes the model for an archetype, you get your name hung on it someplace. Freud was more than sex fixations, too, but you don’t get more than that about him.
Fascinating to see how every person that has posted here is actually familiar with Machiavelli and “The Prince”. However, I suspect that many people who read this comic will be scratching their heads in confusion over the reference!
“Fritz: To take the Zen to the correct place ( since there isn’t one in Zen, that’s a joke.) “If you meet the Buddha. kill the Buddha” Was interpreted by it’s “sayer” to mean that you have to find your own way. Going after the B’s Way would do you no good.”
That’s basically what I was intending to say, with “you can’t enter Nirvana riding on another’s shoulders.” Likewise, an artist can’t become great simply by copying Michaelangelo (to return to the Florentines). Although it’s certainly possible to learn from Michaelangelo and to be inspired by Michaelangelo, I imagine Michaelangelo would be more supportive of a student who would achieve equal heights in his own way than of one who slavishly and obsessively copies the Sistine Chapel ceiling on every blank surface.
There comes a point where following another’s example becomes counterproductive. “The Buddha on the road” is a metaphor, I think; what might ultimately obstruct your growth is your idea of the Buddha, which is simply another attachment that must be severed before enlightenment. This is true whether or not your “idea” of the Buddha is an accurate one.
Don’t follow leaders,Watch the parking meters!
(And watching a parking meter expire can be an surprisingly effective meditation practice. It’s not only easier {for me} than “following your breathing”, but you have a clear indication when you’re done. You’ll get some stares, certainly, but learning both to tune them out and not to care anyway are useful.)
cdward about 14 years ago
Gotta love those Machiavellian princesses.
lewisbower about 14 years ago
Why does everyone have it in for Machiavelli? Ever read more than excerpts from Eng 101?
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
At this point, it’s better to pretend the word “Machiavellian” is simply unrelated to Machiavelli. Still, the derogatory connotations of the word have been in place for at least 400 years…
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
Oh, I dunno. The idea of “To kill the King is to become the King” goes back a looooong way. Perhaps killing the Buddha on the road is a necessary step towards enlightenment; at a certain point you have to abandon the idea of following anybody, in order to take responsibility for your own destination (you can’t enter Nirvana riding on another’s shoulders). If the Buddha you meet IS a real Buddha, killing him will do him no harm.
Before enlightenment - chop wood, kill Buddha. After enlightenment - chop wood, kill Buddha.
freeholder1 about 14 years ago
Fritz: To take the Zen to the correct place ( since there isn’t one in Zen, that’s a joke.) “If you meet the Buddha. kill the Buddha” Was interpreted by it’s “sayer” to mean that you have to find your own way. Going after the B’s Way would do you no good. Eliminate him as your pattern and idol. Like Bruce Lee’s Jeet Kwan Do philosophy of becoming proficient at one form then casting aside the form to become the fighter YOU are.
And killing ANYONE in that philosophy does them no harm since they will be back to correct their errors at a later date.
This is profoundly different for Christian beliefs of Jesus as the pattern though it certainly fits a lot of what is mistaught in churches today.
And, guys, when you write the book “The Prince” who becomes the model for an archetype, you get your name hung on it someplace. Freud was more than sex fixations, too, but you don’t get more than that about him.
Gypsy214 about 14 years ago
Fascinating to see how every person that has posted here is actually familiar with Machiavelli and “The Prince”. However, I suspect that many people who read this comic will be scratching their heads in confusion over the reference!
fritzoid Premium Member about 14 years ago
“Fritz: To take the Zen to the correct place ( since there isn’t one in Zen, that’s a joke.) “If you meet the Buddha. kill the Buddha” Was interpreted by it’s “sayer” to mean that you have to find your own way. Going after the B’s Way would do you no good.”
That’s basically what I was intending to say, with “you can’t enter Nirvana riding on another’s shoulders.” Likewise, an artist can’t become great simply by copying Michaelangelo (to return to the Florentines). Although it’s certainly possible to learn from Michaelangelo and to be inspired by Michaelangelo, I imagine Michaelangelo would be more supportive of a student who would achieve equal heights in his own way than of one who slavishly and obsessively copies the Sistine Chapel ceiling on every blank surface.
There comes a point where following another’s example becomes counterproductive. “The Buddha on the road” is a metaphor, I think; what might ultimately obstruct your growth is your idea of the Buddha, which is simply another attachment that must be severed before enlightenment. This is true whether or not your “idea” of the Buddha is an accurate one.
Don’t follow leaders, Watch the parking meters!
(And watching a parking meter expire can be an surprisingly effective meditation practice. It’s not only easier {for me} than “following your breathing”, but you have a clear indication when you’re done. You’ll get some stares, certainly, but learning both to tune them out and not to care anyway are useful.)