How can you push the repeal of DADT at the exact same time of the Bradley Manning incident? I don’t care which side you are on, but Pfc. Manning did nothing to help the gay cause. I dare say his psychological struggles played a significant role in his actions. Again, regardless of what side you are on for DADT or your take on Wikileaks….
^ Does the Fort Hood massacre mean we should put a ban on religion in the military? Did the Oklahoma city bombings mean we should put a ban on white soldiers?
“I don’t care which side you are on, but Pfc. Manning did nothing to help the gay cause.”
So … having to watch your back around your own teammates for fear you could get outed and lose everything you have ever worked for which could have led to his retaliatory behavior is … . Straight soldiers have thrown grenades into their teammates tents for less.
I think it is magnificent that so many views are being shown and remind each of us that we are each going through things that only God knows. May God’s voice be the louder of them and keep us each in focus of the beautiful reasons God has created us.
McCain is either going senile, or he is showing that he is truly a reprehensible, lying, spineless creature who will say anything – anything – regardless of fact or even his OWN previous statements to keep himself in office.
I’m inclined to the latter. But the former would be kinder.
MOTIVEM> little mccain is all that you say he is plus a self-serving treacherous snipe of a human being. Here in Arizona, he is repeatedly re-elected as his supporters need to keep propping this poor example of a human being up so as to keep milking the pork bellies that little mccain has provided for them. Just our luck.
Actually, Richard, there is really no good time to “raise taxes”. The government expenditures as a percentage of the GDP are currently at 21 or 22 percent. The CBO projects that number to expand into the forties over the next fifty years. For what? Pensions and interest. Atlas is eventually going to shrug. Cuts in spending and pension promises are the only REAL solution….The percentage once upon a time was as low as 3 percent. How did America survive?
Jade being “religious” is already allowed in the military. Being a flamboyant fan of Project Runway is not. If you want to make the argument that we should ban Muslims from the military because of Fort Hood, I’m all ears!
HB, you’ve got to go back quite a way to find the 3% spending level, back to the 19th century. Our current spending level of just under 22% is the lowest level in 60 years.
While most headlines scream that the study endorses allowing openly gays to serve in the military, reading and understanding of the study actually highlights a few major problems, as in - about 30% of the current fighting force would consider leaving the military if the policy were to change … . and the Marines are even more vehemently opposed to the change.
We are involved in two major hand to hand combat types of wars, and many want to social re-engineer our military - politics at its worst!!!
^^”fivers” bucket of defecation is overflowing again. He doesn’t have a clue about any “culture” other than radical right wing hypochristian BS. It was specifically those “good Christians” who sent us to ‘Nam to defend their cowardly assets from “godless Communism”. The current greatest sin in our military is the propaganda and “recruiting” they’re forced to endure from evangelical “Christians” who have too much power in the command structure.
fiver also needs to realize those Muslims in Afghanistan worship the SAME GOD of Abraham as do Christians and Jews, and obviously have more respect of Jesus who they respect as a prophet, because THEY actually follow what he said more than money-grubbing, little boy bumping evango-maggots who build huge churches to profits, not prophets.
That Muslims still take the OLD TESTAMENT more literally than either Jews or Christians in their politics is a sad deal, but it is their way. The brutality of the Afghan culture goes DIRECTLY back to literally following the commandments in the Old Testament of the laws of Moses as applied by later mullahs. Mohammed was FAR LESS brutal than any Pope during the inquisition, or Crusaders.
“Pagans” by the way make very, very, good soldiers.
^the best soldiers are the one’s who leave those of other faiths or sexuality alone, and DIE for Jesus (who they constantly misquote and misinterpret.)
We’ve needed a draft for a long time, and I propose the best would be to start drafting the sons and daughters of politicians at all levels, and the CEOs of every corporation involved in war profiteering- first.
^ You know a christian who would die praying for his enemies, except sugar-coated versions of the first martyrs?
The crusaders didn’t only killed for their religion, they crossed half of what they knew of the World back then to do it!
The Red Army, Asokas’s soldiers, the armies of Ghenghis Khan, of Attila, of Tamerlane. the armies of éramses 2, of Alexander the Great, the Persians, the Spartans…all of those armies left their marks in history. ésome of them were more brutal than others, but all were efficient. Same with today; the armies of China, India and Japan aren’t exactly guys easy to take on, yet none of those are christian.
When times are hard, weak people look for answers from up above. After all, in the Bible, every defeat is explained by the ungodly ways of some king. The chinese also lame the downfall of every dynasty on a debauched king. Probably every culture has a form of that, it’s called hindsight bias;
http://tinyurl.com/hindsightbias
believe it or not, kingdoms more christian than the US had defeats, too, against pagans; Tsarist russia against Japan in 1905 and then again against the atheist bloshevics. Royalist France to the anti-religious revolutionaries, the crusades against muslims, countless invasions of Britain and carolingian France by pagan Vikings…
the answer to those defeats were well part of this World; the enemy was better adapted to the changing times, was more determined, better financed, had better luck…or just that sometimes, defeat is a part of life. You can’t win ‘em all.
And if we lose Afghanistan and Iraq, what’s the worst that can happen? Do you really think guys with rocket launchers can arm ships to cross the Atlantic and invade America from Maine to California? We lose those place and it will be like Vietnam after 1975; ruled by thugs who don’t have any power outside of their country. They’ll just be too glad tu rule their sandbox to take on America again. they know they can’t conquer it.
Are there people here actually claiming that Christians make better soldiers because “Christian culture,” whatever that is, makes them better? What part of “love your neighbor as yourself” and “turn the other cheek” don’t you understand?
Quakers would say that pacifism is the only truly Christian stance.
And let’s be clear. 30% of the troops surveyed said it might bother them – not that they would leave en masse, which is simply a ludicrous misstatement. Have you actually looked at these questions? They actually asked if they would mind showering with gay fellow soldiers!! As Jon Stewart pointed out, the only way they could have gotten more specific was by giving names! “How about Ray? Are you okay with him?”
If common showers are all that keep gays from serving freely in the military, would it cost more than the 700 billion bailout to install partitions in the showers…if there aren’t already?
Would metal or plastic walls like those seperating toilets make the soldiers any less manly?
^ I don’t like people who believe that just beause some people don’t believe in religion as it used to be, they don’t believe in anything and don’t hold anything sacred; they can hold nature sacred (if you believe in God, you have to admit it is God’s creation, therefore it is sacred). They can believe in effort and give importance to it through sport. They can bellieve in freedom, in their nation, they can believe in knowledge and get educated, they can believe in charity and compassion and do volunteer work for the poor, they can believe in beauty and live that through art.
All those things may life worth living. But unfortnately, if an activity doesn’t bring aterial satisfaction, many people will say it’s absolute bullshit. For me, vonlunteering with the poor brings something to my life, but my dad says it’s is a waste of time.
I feel like i need to dedicate myself to something bigger than me, that was there before i was born and that will still be there after my death. Art and humor are that for me. It is something spiritual, it just doesn’t happen in a church.
Rightists think believe Liberals don’t believe in anything just because they have different views on two things; sexuality and wealth.
For wealth, I’m not sure I know what God is, but I’m pretty sure it’s not a plasma TV. But a plasma TV and as soon as you’ll have it, you’ll wish you got that bigger one your neighbor has. Why? WHY??? It will be in the trash after five years. When you’ll be dead, nobody will remember the size of that TY you got for five years of your 60-year life. Wealth IS NOT something bigger than yourself. Everything you can buy with money is, at best just a tool and, at worst, a distraction from more fullfiling things..
And sex; how much time do we spend having sex? We have it three times a week? Once a week? Horny people may have it for twenty minutes, once a day. Yet look at all those junk articles about sex in magazines and on the net, look at how much attention we waste on something we do for an hour a week? By comparison, how much time do we spend working? How much time do we spend interacting with others? How much time do we spend taking care of our children or elderly parents?
To me, the religious right does the same mistake as the mainstream media; focus so much on sex that they think a person IS her or his sex life and absolutely nothing else. They put all their attention on that thing we do for an hour a week, and absolutely no attention everything else a person can be.
charlie555, The very definition of arogance is a man who claims to “know” the truth about God. You don’t “know” anything. You have “faith.” By definition, faith implies you don’t know everything, because then you wouldn’t need faith. You would have facts.
But since 4.5 billion human beings have faith in different “truths” than you do, I have to suspect anyone (i.e. YOU) who claims to possess the ultimate “truth”.
There may be an ultimate, universal Truth, but it has nothing to do with man’s self-serving religions. And it most certainly has no bearing on a soldier’s sexual orientation. The Truth Universal couldn’t care less about man’s little idiosycrasies.
^That’s what I was trying to say in that long post above. God is probably less sex-obsessed than us and probably considers a person’s sexual orientation a simple part of their being, not the totality of what’s to judge.
I have to assume Charlie is Stryper. Arguing with him is as productive as arguing with a brick wall.
As far as officially integrating gays in the military, we dealt with this s**t 60 years ago. Replace the word “gay” with the word “negro” and you have all the same arguments the integrationists had back in the late 1940’s.
The time to argue is over. Just shut up and repeal it. Dedicated soldiers who love their country will welcome other dedicated soldiers to fight along side them regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference. Anyone less then dedicated can just get out now.
Kenneth Buhagiar Premium Member over 13 years ago
Maverick, my a$$
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
How can you push the repeal of DADT at the exact same time of the Bradley Manning incident? I don’t care which side you are on, but Pfc. Manning did nothing to help the gay cause. I dare say his psychological struggles played a significant role in his actions. Again, regardless of what side you are on for DADT or your take on Wikileaks….
Jaedabee Premium Member over 13 years ago
^ Does the Fort Hood massacre mean we should put a ban on religion in the military? Did the Oklahoma city bombings mean we should put a ban on white soldiers?
“I don’t care which side you are on, but Pfc. Manning did nothing to help the gay cause.”
So … having to watch your back around your own teammates for fear you could get outed and lose everything you have ever worked for which could have led to his retaliatory behavior is … . Straight soldiers have thrown grenades into their teammates tents for less.Dtroutma over 13 years ago
Carrie McAinal?
comYics over 13 years ago
I think it is magnificent that so many views are being shown and remind each of us that we are each going through things that only God knows. May God’s voice be the louder of them and keep us each in focus of the beautiful reasons God has created us.
Motivemagus over 13 years ago
McCain is either going senile, or he is showing that he is truly a reprehensible, lying, spineless creature who will say anything – anything – regardless of fact or even his OWN previous statements to keep himself in office. I’m inclined to the latter. But the former would be kinder.
Gypsy8 over 13 years ago
^How about that he is the designated senator to see that DADT is not repealed. Can’t have Obama achieving a milestone victory you know.
pirate227 over 13 years ago
^ It’s definitely the latter.
Odon Premium Member over 13 years ago
McCain is a self made eunuch.
sidl over 13 years ago
MOTIVEM> little mccain is all that you say he is plus a self-serving treacherous snipe of a human being. Here in Arizona, he is repeatedly re-elected as his supporters need to keep propping this poor example of a human being up so as to keep milking the pork bellies that little mccain has provided for them. Just our luck.
BrianCrook over 13 years ago
What is going on with Senator McCain in this matter? He won re-election. He will never hold higher office.
He has six years before he must run again, and this repeal has the backing of most Americans.
Whom is he pleasing with this irrational, homophobic stance?
HabaneroBuck over 13 years ago
Actually, Richard, there is really no good time to “raise taxes”. The government expenditures as a percentage of the GDP are currently at 21 or 22 percent. The CBO projects that number to expand into the forties over the next fifty years. For what? Pensions and interest. Atlas is eventually going to shrug. Cuts in spending and pension promises are the only REAL solution….The percentage once upon a time was as low as 3 percent. How did America survive?
Jade being “religious” is already allowed in the military. Being a flamboyant fan of Project Runway is not. If you want to make the argument that we should ban Muslims from the military because of Fort Hood, I’m all ears!
Bluejayz over 13 years ago
HB, you’ve got to go back quite a way to find the 3% spending level, back to the 19th century. Our current spending level of just under 22% is the lowest level in 60 years.
rockngolfer over 13 years ago
The effect of those 5 1/2 years of solitary confinement led to his choice of Palin. ‘nuff said.
petergrt over 13 years ago
While most headlines scream that the study endorses allowing openly gays to serve in the military, reading and understanding of the study actually highlights a few major problems, as in - about 30% of the current fighting force would consider leaving the military if the policy were to change … . and the Marines are even more vehemently opposed to the change.
We are involved in two major hand to hand combat types of wars, and many want to social re-engineer our military - politics at its worst!!!
http://www.usatoday.com/news/pdf/20101130_dadt.pdf
Dtroutma over 13 years ago
^^”fivers” bucket of defecation is overflowing again. He doesn’t have a clue about any “culture” other than radical right wing hypochristian BS. It was specifically those “good Christians” who sent us to ‘Nam to defend their cowardly assets from “godless Communism”. The current greatest sin in our military is the propaganda and “recruiting” they’re forced to endure from evangelical “Christians” who have too much power in the command structure.
fiver also needs to realize those Muslims in Afghanistan worship the SAME GOD of Abraham as do Christians and Jews, and obviously have more respect of Jesus who they respect as a prophet, because THEY actually follow what he said more than money-grubbing, little boy bumping evango-maggots who build huge churches to profits, not prophets.
That Muslims still take the OLD TESTAMENT more literally than either Jews or Christians in their politics is a sad deal, but it is their way. The brutality of the Afghan culture goes DIRECTLY back to literally following the commandments in the Old Testament of the laws of Moses as applied by later mullahs. Mohammed was FAR LESS brutal than any Pope during the inquisition, or Crusaders.
“Pagans” by the way make very, very, good soldiers.
^the best soldiers are the one’s who leave those of other faiths or sexuality alone, and DIE for Jesus (who they constantly misquote and misinterpret.)
We’ve needed a draft for a long time, and I propose the best would be to start drafting the sons and daughters of politicians at all levels, and the CEOs of every corporation involved in war profiteering- first.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
^ You know a christian who would die praying for his enemies, except sugar-coated versions of the first martyrs?
The crusaders didn’t only killed for their religion, they crossed half of what they knew of the World back then to do it! The Red Army, Asokas’s soldiers, the armies of Ghenghis Khan, of Attila, of Tamerlane. the armies of éramses 2, of Alexander the Great, the Persians, the Spartans…all of those armies left their marks in history. ésome of them were more brutal than others, but all were efficient. Same with today; the armies of China, India and Japan aren’t exactly guys easy to take on, yet none of those are christian.
When times are hard, weak people look for answers from up above. After all, in the Bible, every defeat is explained by the ungodly ways of some king. The chinese also lame the downfall of every dynasty on a debauched king. Probably every culture has a form of that, it’s called hindsight bias;
http://tinyurl.com/hindsightbias
believe it or not, kingdoms more christian than the US had defeats, too, against pagans; Tsarist russia against Japan in 1905 and then again against the atheist bloshevics. Royalist France to the anti-religious revolutionaries, the crusades against muslims, countless invasions of Britain and carolingian France by pagan Vikings…
the answer to those defeats were well part of this World; the enemy was better adapted to the changing times, was more determined, better financed, had better luck…or just that sometimes, defeat is a part of life. You can’t win ‘em all.
And if we lose Afghanistan and Iraq, what’s the worst that can happen? Do you really think guys with rocket launchers can arm ships to cross the Atlantic and invade America from Maine to California? We lose those place and it will be like Vietnam after 1975; ruled by thugs who don’t have any power outside of their country. They’ll just be too glad tu rule their sandbox to take on America again. they know they can’t conquer it.
What’s to lose there except pride?
Motivemagus over 13 years ago
Are there people here actually claiming that Christians make better soldiers because “Christian culture,” whatever that is, makes them better? What part of “love your neighbor as yourself” and “turn the other cheek” don’t you understand? Quakers would say that pacifism is the only truly Christian stance. And let’s be clear. 30% of the troops surveyed said it might bother them – not that they would leave en masse, which is simply a ludicrous misstatement. Have you actually looked at these questions? They actually asked if they would mind showering with gay fellow soldiers!! As Jon Stewart pointed out, the only way they could have gotten more specific was by giving names! “How about Ray? Are you okay with him?”
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
If common showers are all that keep gays from serving freely in the military, would it cost more than the 700 billion bailout to install partitions in the showers…if there aren’t already?
Would metal or plastic walls like those seperating toilets make the soldiers any less manly?
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
There is a universal Truth…but which one is it?
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
^ I don’t like people who believe that just beause some people don’t believe in religion as it used to be, they don’t believe in anything and don’t hold anything sacred; they can hold nature sacred (if you believe in God, you have to admit it is God’s creation, therefore it is sacred). They can believe in effort and give importance to it through sport. They can bellieve in freedom, in their nation, they can believe in knowledge and get educated, they can believe in charity and compassion and do volunteer work for the poor, they can believe in beauty and live that through art.
All those things may life worth living. But unfortnately, if an activity doesn’t bring aterial satisfaction, many people will say it’s absolute bullshit. For me, vonlunteering with the poor brings something to my life, but my dad says it’s is a waste of time.
I feel like i need to dedicate myself to something bigger than me, that was there before i was born and that will still be there after my death. Art and humor are that for me. It is something spiritual, it just doesn’t happen in a church.
Rightists think believe Liberals don’t believe in anything just because they have different views on two things; sexuality and wealth.
For wealth, I’m not sure I know what God is, but I’m pretty sure it’s not a plasma TV. But a plasma TV and as soon as you’ll have it, you’ll wish you got that bigger one your neighbor has. Why? WHY??? It will be in the trash after five years. When you’ll be dead, nobody will remember the size of that TY you got for five years of your 60-year life. Wealth IS NOT something bigger than yourself. Everything you can buy with money is, at best just a tool and, at worst, a distraction from more fullfiling things..
And sex; how much time do we spend having sex? We have it three times a week? Once a week? Horny people may have it for twenty minutes, once a day. Yet look at all those junk articles about sex in magazines and on the net, look at how much attention we waste on something we do for an hour a week? By comparison, how much time do we spend working? How much time do we spend interacting with others? How much time do we spend taking care of our children or elderly parents?
To me, the religious right does the same mistake as the mainstream media; focus so much on sex that they think a person IS her or his sex life and absolutely nothing else. They put all their attention on that thing we do for an hour a week, and absolutely no attention everything else a person can be.
Bluejayz over 13 years ago
charlie555, The very definition of arogance is a man who claims to “know” the truth about God. You don’t “know” anything. You have “faith.” By definition, faith implies you don’t know everything, because then you wouldn’t need faith. You would have facts.
But since 4.5 billion human beings have faith in different “truths” than you do, I have to suspect anyone (i.e. YOU) who claims to possess the ultimate “truth”.
There may be an ultimate, universal Truth, but it has nothing to do with man’s self-serving religions. And it most certainly has no bearing on a soldier’s sexual orientation. The Truth Universal couldn’t care less about man’s little idiosycrasies.
CorosiveFrog Premium Member over 13 years ago
^That’s what I was trying to say in that long post above. God is probably less sex-obsessed than us and probably considers a person’s sexual orientation a simple part of their being, not the totality of what’s to judge.
Jason Allen over 13 years ago
I have to assume Charlie is Stryper. Arguing with him is as productive as arguing with a brick wall.
As far as officially integrating gays in the military, we dealt with this s**t 60 years ago. Replace the word “gay” with the word “negro” and you have all the same arguments the integrationists had back in the late 1940’s.
The time to argue is over. Just shut up and repeal it. Dedicated soldiers who love their country will welcome other dedicated soldiers to fight along side them regardless of race, gender, or sexual preference. Anyone less then dedicated can just get out now.