Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for December 16, 2010

Panel #4: Is Mel gay? Or did she get a clue from observing others?

The complexity of DADT

Well about time!

I , for one, would certainly not want to read a lesbian weapons analysis!

And what if Putin were to get hold of it?

Brilliant!

Thanks, GT.. I just won a bet! right on!

mission critical yes

good work again

I wouldn’t worry about her too much. After discharge, she’ll be hired by the contractor that makes the systems at a 6 figure income and be back in the field again.

What’s the big deal, who cares what people do in private if they aren’t hurting anyone, anyway? I thought you Americans had a “free” society.

Does she have a report yet on the XM-25 squad weapon the Army is sending to Afghanistan? Lase the target to get the range which is downloaded into the 25mm fragmentation round. Fire past the target and the charge explodes behind the bad guy’s cover, either killing him or driving him out in the open to be killed by the rest of the squad. Cool. And it doesn’t care what the soldier firing it does with his/her goodies in his/her spare time.

Hugh, our American society has always been free with a few conspicuous blind spots - race, sex, etc. But I think overall we do at least as well with freedom as anyone else. It ain’t easy.

It does look like GT is getting ready to “out” Mel; to to us readers, at least.

I suspect, rather, that Mel is the neutral observer in this DADT fiasco. Her own sexuality is not particularly at issue, but it could come to pass that she would decide to try a ‘walk on the wild side’. With her traumatic history, it might be illuminating.

Skilled, talented personnel who actually WANT to be in the military dismissed or barred from service because they might be checking out my “junk.”

Makes perfect sense, and I’m sure that little tidbit will be duly noted when historians document the post mortem of the United States: “they stuck with their interpretation of Christian scripture to the bitter end.”

Google “Forrestal” and “wet start” for the real information on McCain. He’s even worse than most people know about - and it’s ANYTHING but a joke. He killed 142 of his own crewmen and it was covered up because daddy was a big wheel Admiral.

And what is with all these people thinking that because Mel is having a rational, calm discussion with a lesbian, that automatically makes her one, too? WTF?

Out of curiosity I did a quick search for that MOS and didn’t find it. Doesn’t matter much, it’s a great story line.

randgrithr, I thought Mel’s words in the last panel sound as though she’s speaking from personal experience about dealing with DADT. If GT has decided the character is gay, it would give him a further opportunity to explore the topic. She might end up talking with BD at the vet’s center.

Of course she could also be observant and sympathetic about the problem.

All I need to know about McCain is that he appears to think that when he was active duty, there weren’t just as many of us GLBT folks in the service then as there are now. I was in ‘Nam too, and I would beg to differ with his apparent opinion!

Years ago when I was in a waiting room at the VA in downtown Seattle, a couple of gay men (who were obviously not concealing it anymore) were talking. They were older vets, possibly Vietnam. Anyway, at one point one of them joked by gasping loudly in fake horror – “Oh my gosh! You’re gay, and a veteran!?!?!” I think every veteran in that waiting room began to chuckle.

I think veterans – unless they went through their service with blinders on – realize that gays have always served in the military and made contributions and sacrifices equal to everyone else. Its way past time we start recognizing and accepting it.

APersonOfInterest, that’s okay, if he can’t find his list, Rachel Maddow is keeping track. vbg

Ah, WetStart, pretty much everyone in the Military WANTS to be there; the draft ended a long time ago.

You kinda have to volunteer now.

Orion

yes , we have fancy, super duper weapons systems but have no answer at all for an army of fanatic , suicide bombers

fbjsr, I concur with you about who would likely be a weapons analyst. You also raise an interesting point about DADT and how the commander might not be able to use what he read online from a third party.

On the other hand, the “sheeple” here understand that this is fiction. The erroneous MOS is like finding a wristwatch in a gladiator movie – people like to take note of the mistake, but it does not affect the message of the movie. That GT may have gotten his facts wrong in the DADT backstory is more significant because some people may believe that it could happen this way, but to call GT a liar over it is presumptuous. He may have only been trying to inject a cautionary tale about online social networks.

In short, I think your biases are coloring your perspective.

SSAD? The DSM-IV called and wants you to get with the times.

plus4, somehow I doubt that SSAD is in the current Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV), therefore not recognized by the mental health profession, and therefore I think a very lame attempt to give legitimacy to personal prejudices.

Ah, beat me to it, ronebofh.

So, to make this character more authentic, what other manifestations of SSAD should this woman be exhibiting during a casual conversation on a plane flight?

I think plus4 is one of those “pray away the gay” types

OH! Plus four!!

Are you hiding something from yourself?!

Whether you are or not and you want to live out your self-inflicted delusion, there is a great church you can join.

Westboro Baptist Church main message is that God hates “xxxx.” (derogatory epithet for Gays)

If you want to fulfill your deranged vision of the world you can help Fred Phelps by protesting at military funerals and strutting around with great big signs proclaiming your ignorance. Have fun!

ON THE OTHER HAND, plus4, if your personal experience (terrible abusive life killing experience) has something to do with your present blindness, you need to seek help.

If something terrible is tearing you apart, your present way of dealing with it is going to destroy you.

Some gay and straight people do wonderful things and some do horrible things. Sexual orientation is NOT a factor in how they live their lives and how they treat others.

FBJSR has such a burr under his saddle on this, it kinda makes me wonder what FBJ Junior is up to. FBJ Senior reads like a sour old man, gay-hating to the very end. Sad, but a troll on this site.

Has anyone else read anything in GT’s writing about the armed services that even whispers that the only soldiers doing their jobs are the GLB ones? Of course not. GT is an incredible cheerleader for ALL our soldiers.

In case nobody has mentioned it lately, here’s a link to The Sandbox http://gocomics.typepad.com/the_sandbox/ which is the milbox Doonesbury maintains. It’s a wonderful place to go to hear from our sisters and brothers in the armed services, and it has links out into the astonishing world of individual milblogs. Read and be enlightened, and you’ll never doubt GT’s sincerity on the issue again.

MOS: Military Occupation Specialty

Fbjsr, it’s not “Don’t Ask AND Don’t Tell”. It’s “Don’t Ask OR Don’t Tell”. Once someone tells, superiors need not ask. The system is fubar.

Reading this strip is a lot like watching Saturday Night Live.

How are we to defeat the Taliban, Al Qaeda, China, N. Korea, or Lichtenstein, if our nation is too afraid of a LGBT “soldier” to “handle it”?? There is more to fear from narcissists and other psychotics in “command” positions than any troop who might reveal their sexuality.

fbjsr: I get what you’re saying about the don’t ask part. You would think people aren’t supposed to ask and use third party info to dismiss someone, however in practice this has happened all the time, except recently. If you look up the recent CNN article on the House repealing DADT, read the ending paragraphs were it states that:

“Last spring, Gates…initiated rules that made it more difficult for a service member to be removed because of a third-party “outing”…The number of military discharges made due to the policy has since dropped sharply.”

First thing is to notice that it said made more difficult, not that it’s impossible completely. Second, it’s telling that the number of military discharges had dropped sharply. Before this RECENT policy change, a good number of discharges were made from third party outings. (or it’s colonel and Navy commander ranks or higher are less likely to discharge, since that was part of the policy change too–it could be that as well, but my point still stands.)

GT was not lying in this case, especially if he was thinking of all the stories of gay service members being dismissed not because they directly outed themselves. Sure, this year it’s a bit harder for this unfair dismissal to happen, but it really depends on the prejudices of who’s investigating. Plus, “don’t tell” is so murky. All someone would have to do is see a gay military person with his significant other, suspect something, and that’s enough “telling” for them to be dismissed. And notice how someone is able to ask and not get dismissed. DADT is just a really flawed policy. I hope the repeal passes in the senate.

Stories from people who were dismissed: http://www.sldn.org/blog/c/letters

There’s a mixture of those who outed themselves, those who didn’t, and those somewhere inbetween.

BrianCrook said “it’s not ‘Don’t Ask AND Don’t Tell’. It’s ‘Don’t Ask OR Don’t Tell’. Once someone tells, superiors need not ask. The system is fubar.”

Actually, I don’t think it’s an issue of and/or telling, but who told. I’m no legal eagle, and am happy to be corrected, but…

If a person writes in a blog that a certain soldier is gay, under DADT could a commander confront that soldier and ask if the blog was true? I think not. If he couldn’t do that, could he proceed with disciplinary action that would lead to discharge? Again, I think not.

@mrbribery; I am really curious - what would be wrong with a “lesbian weapons analysis”? I just can’t tell if you’re being serious or sarcastic! I can’t believe that any reasonable (the key word, of course) person would find something wrong!

Do lesbians have a special code which they use to tell the Russians? Hey, in case you didn’t notice, the Russians are not enemies of the US any more. I think if you are looking for the official bad guys today, they officially speak Arabic. (I don’t know an icon for a sarcastic grin…)

It seems like everybody in the army is a gay person snitching on some other gay person

Are we supposed to conclude that Mel is gay? just because she knows something about it? so to be safe even if heterosexual, she should avoid finding out anything, getting to know anyone who is gay?

because everyone seems to be jumping on the bandwagon, winning bets, just because Mel made a remark. Could someone please explain this to me?

I really want to know…

As to SSAD, Same Sex Attraction Disorder, what about DRAD, Different Race Attraction Disorder? Is that still on the books? it used to be extremely illegal, especially in the South.

@fbjsr; you’ve made your point - you think gt tells lies. you say it often enough. how about substituting some verifiable evidence?

When I joined the Navy, homosexuality was forbidden. Then it became optional. I retired, before it became mandatory.

“I , for one, would certainly not want to read a lesbian weapons analysis!”

How would it differ from any other weapons analysis?

If the military does do away with DADT and the policy that preceded it, we’d have less couples where the one who’s not in the military has an almost open relationship with someone else while providing the cover of marriage for their spouse. I knew of one such case where the third member of the relationship openly talked about it with me. There was another case in our shop where I think that is what was going on because their attempt at being covert weren’t 100%. We were more concerned with doing our jobs and working as a team than asking each other which team we batted for.

Irony deficiency can be fatal.

Think again Hayve.

Re the comic – and that “team leader” is empathetic too isn’t he – but I forgot that’s a dirty word in American govt.

blueprairie, that kind of analysis is printed on tweed, smokes cigars and won’t share its brownies.

Yes, Jelindy, I’m sure it happens all the time. I recall one of my early assignments where two soldiers, a gay male and a lesbian, married so they could move out of the barracks and live off post where they could have the privacy to live their separate lives while sharing an apartment. They stayed married through two assignments until both completed their enlistments. My wife and I were privileged to know their secret, but of course the more who knew, the bigger the danger. Lots of people suspected, I’m sure.

Of course failure to report a violation of the UCMJ may have gotten me in trouble. Although I’m unaware of straight guys getting in trouble for not turning in gay soldiers, I’m sure it happened somewhere. When I was a platoon leader, I made it clear that I didn’t care who or what people were partnering with (I used more colorful language then) as long as it didn’t interfere with the mission. I guess if I had a CO that felt differently it would have been a problem, but I never had a problem arise from any of my soldier’s sexual orientation.