I am descended from the Fort Sill reservation (Kiowa). Other people there were Comanches and Apaches. Chepe y Pepe would have had to travel pretty far north to encounter us. As for being all for or all against the current President “What’s his name,” it seems, that I have something, called a “life.” I have more important things to do.
I appreciate the sentiment but I am pretty sure the different indigenous nations fought each other over land and resources every once in a while, too. And weren’t the Aztecs an empire in their own time, with their own elite and religious oppression? (Not to justify the European’ theft and genocide but not to overly romanticize the past, either.)
Check out the history of the Iroquois confederacy and compare with Aztecs, Mayans, and Incans. The societies of the Americas seem to have been just as diverse and sophisticated as those of Europe, Asia or Africa.
@MARTENS, Thanks for your post, And in fact many early American native cultures were more advanced and sophisticated than some (Emphasis in some) of the Europeans and their cultural social and organizational advances, Americans had already developed the Aztec Calendar, The Mayans did also, And their astronomy science was far advanced The medical sciences were far more effective than the Invaders/conquerors/ and their lust for subjugation an domination of American natives
Well, the Apaches were pretty much hated by all their neighbors and generally for good reason. They were raiders. While the Papago, Hopi, and others were farming, the Apaches were raiding and killing them. Not something that endears one to the neighbors.
Nevertheless, there is evidence for trade routes across Mexico and the US which probably rival those of Celtic Europe. A good accomplishment given a terrain often very scarce in water and therefore in game, unlike Europe. Not to mention wandering populations.
The engineering of some of the indigenous peoples was often superior to other European cultures. Aztec, Mayan, and Inca architecture was often amazing. Even the mounds of the mound builders represent a significant achievement. And while they weren’t building Roman roads and bridges, neither were most peoples in Europe. Putting rope bridges across some of those chasms in Inca lands is a pretty good trick.
Baslim, I think you have to remember that beasts of burden that could be domesticated were in short supply in the Americas due to the North American extinction event, and therefore, there was no push to make roads or invent wheels (although the Aztecs did have some wheeled toys). On the other hand, the domestication of plants was amazing. We still haven’t figured out how they domesticated Zea mays (corn), and even today the world owes 60+% of edible plants to the Americas. If it hadn’t been for the correlate of not much animal domestication with its effects on the development of immune responses, the Americans would most likely have been able to hold their own against the Europeans.
Orson Scott Card’s Pastwatch centers around a group of people who are employed to use a device to observe the past (but not be observed). One of the events they investigate is a special moment in the life of Christopher Columbus. He supposedly has a revelation from God. Turns out it was a revelation from some other group of Pastwatchers. The moment is considered to be the defining moment for the conquest of the Americas as we know it.
But who did it? And why? The answer turns out to be that in the history of the meddlers, the people of the Americas made it to Europe first. And imposed Aztec-like religions involving human sacrifice, leading to a rather bleak and bloody future. (Card is a devout Mormon.) Card says that certain tribes in Mexico were on the verge of iron working. He has them develop ships capable of first subduing the Caribbean islands and then onward and outward. The arguments are mostly plausible. It’s been more than 20 years since I read the book, so I am not sure how he addressed the issue that disease should have wiped the invaders out.
How Card constructed all of this was quite interesting. And of course, I have not told you how everything turns out. Because you see, this group of Pastwatchers is not happy with how their future is looking (large scale warfare imminent).
DD Wiz over 6 years ago
Papers please!
Nah, just kidding. No ID necessary, unless you’re shopping for groceries. Comrade TRUMPski said so.
Obviously the out-of-touch Comrade TRUMPski never does his own grocery shopping. He sends his underpaid gopher out to shop for him at TRAITOR Joe’s.
Templo S.U.D. over 6 years ago
Apaches vs. Aztecs… lovely.
Daniel Jacobson over 6 years ago
I am descended from the Fort Sill reservation (Kiowa). Other people there were Comanches and Apaches. Chepe y Pepe would have had to travel pretty far north to encounter us. As for being all for or all against the current President “What’s his name,” it seems, that I have something, called a “life.” I have more important things to do.
BubbleTape Premium Member over 6 years ago
I appreciate the sentiment but I am pretty sure the different indigenous nations fought each other over land and resources every once in a while, too. And weren’t the Aztecs an empire in their own time, with their own elite and religious oppression? (Not to justify the European’ theft and genocide but not to overly romanticize the past, either.)
polly over 6 years ago
I thought that was the Chief from Ricardo Cate’’s Without Reservations! I almost missed the text in the last panel. Cool!
martens over 6 years ago
Check out the history of the Iroquois confederacy and compare with Aztecs, Mayans, and Incans. The societies of the Americas seem to have been just as diverse and sophisticated as those of Europe, Asia or Africa.
sufamelico over 6 years ago
@MARTENS, Thanks for your post, And in fact many early American native cultures were more advanced and sophisticated than some (Emphasis in some) of the Europeans and their cultural social and organizational advances, Americans had already developed the Aztec Calendar, The Mayans did also, And their astronomy science was far advanced The medical sciences were far more effective than the Invaders/conquerors/ and their lust for subjugation an domination of American natives
Daeder over 6 years ago
Just as long as you don’t try to board a bus in Delaware!
Baslim the Beggar Premium Member over 6 years ago
Well, the Apaches were pretty much hated by all their neighbors and generally for good reason. They were raiders. While the Papago, Hopi, and others were farming, the Apaches were raiding and killing them. Not something that endears one to the neighbors.
Nevertheless, there is evidence for trade routes across Mexico and the US which probably rival those of Celtic Europe. A good accomplishment given a terrain often very scarce in water and therefore in game, unlike Europe. Not to mention wandering populations.
The engineering of some of the indigenous peoples was often superior to other European cultures. Aztec, Mayan, and Inca architecture was often amazing. Even the mounds of the mound builders represent a significant achievement. And while they weren’t building Roman roads and bridges, neither were most peoples in Europe. Putting rope bridges across some of those chasms in Inca lands is a pretty good trick.
martens over 6 years ago
Baslim, I think you have to remember that beasts of burden that could be domesticated were in short supply in the Americas due to the North American extinction event, and therefore, there was no push to make roads or invent wheels (although the Aztecs did have some wheeled toys). On the other hand, the domestication of plants was amazing. We still haven’t figured out how they domesticated Zea mays (corn), and even today the world owes 60+% of edible plants to the Americas. If it hadn’t been for the correlate of not much animal domestication with its effects on the development of immune responses, the Americans would most likely have been able to hold their own against the Europeans.
Baslim the Beggar Premium Member over 6 years ago
Orson Scott Card’s Pastwatch centers around a group of people who are employed to use a device to observe the past (but not be observed). One of the events they investigate is a special moment in the life of Christopher Columbus. He supposedly has a revelation from God. Turns out it was a revelation from some other group of Pastwatchers. The moment is considered to be the defining moment for the conquest of the Americas as we know it.
But who did it? And why? The answer turns out to be that in the history of the meddlers, the people of the Americas made it to Europe first. And imposed Aztec-like religions involving human sacrifice, leading to a rather bleak and bloody future. (Card is a devout Mormon.) Card says that certain tribes in Mexico were on the verge of iron working. He has them develop ships capable of first subduing the Caribbean islands and then onward and outward. The arguments are mostly plausible. It’s been more than 20 years since I read the book, so I am not sure how he addressed the issue that disease should have wiped the invaders out.
How Card constructed all of this was quite interesting. And of course, I have not told you how everything turns out. Because you see, this group of Pastwatchers is not happy with how their future is looking (large scale warfare imminent).