No, look at it like this. We’re something like 29th healthiest now. With better healthcare, we will have more people being more productive more of the time. (Multiply total number of working adults by 1-2 days a year, and see how many person-years you get back!) A public-option healthcare plan will also lift a barrier for small-to-medium sized business of overpriced healthcare, so they can concentrate their money on growing their businesses. This lifts the economy, so we have more money to spend on the public option and more money in general.
You can’t tell me this makes less sense than the “Laffer Curve…”
Motive:”A public-option healthcare plan will also lift a barrier for small-to-medium sized business of overpriced healthcare”
Not really. The money has to come from somewhere, and it isn’t going to be from anything else than new taxes no matter what anybody tells you.
People would freak out if they took the entire tax burden on their own, so small, medium and large business will end up paying their portion of the health plan through taxes per employee.
That is a bogus statistic. If we were to compare health of Swedes living in Minnesota to those living in Sweden, than we would be comparing apples with apples.
There is nothing in any of the Democrat proposed ‘restructuring’ that would improve the health-care. There is a severe shortage of doctors and nurses - for starters …
No one ever complains about it, but I wonder how much of the doctor shortage is because of the med schools. They price their programs out of affordability, they purposefully keep their graduate numbers low to boost their reputation, and then there are the politics with foreign doctors.
In Quebec, we actually have a high number of licensed doctors driving taxis because the medical college does not recognize Moroccan doctors. They won’t even give them the chance to take a test to see if they have the proper abilities; Meanwhile we sit and rot waiting in line at emergency clinics.
Petergrt has mentioned the most important FACT in this entire discussion. Please, all you Obama worshippers, how is it possible to suddenly increase demand for service, when it is impossible to suddenly increase those who give the service?
Actually, I agree on the need for more doctors (and have said so repeatedly) – part of the problem with our system is that it is too doggoned expensive to become a doctor, which screens out some people and tilts those who do have enough towards high-paying specialties instead of general practice, which is where the real need is.
Jim, I think the ‘toon would benefit from the Hippo being in water and the viewer being able to see pyramids in the background. Yes, its overdoing it. But I still think it would help.
motivemagus, if we are down on the list of healthy nations it may have little to do with the current status of our health care system and much more to do with our obesity problem.
It takes a bit more then money to become a doctor.
A few decades ago it was the highest paid profession.
Today, its attorneys, and no one is claiming that there is a shortage of law-schools or its products.
Ever since we have started to mess with the health-care system, under the pretense of controlling the costs, we have managed to turn able-bodied would be doctors into lawyers or such.
petergrt, there are definitely not enough primary care physicians in this country, and they are the least-respected and most poorly-paid of the major MD-based professions. Furthermore, the biggest issue isn’t our messing with the healthcare system, it’s the insurance companies that force doctors into managing a zillion contradictory plans. Heck, if we could just get consistent coverage and required coverage despite preexisting conditions (which something like 70% of doctors support), we’d cut vast amounts of wastage out of the system and cost PCPs much less.
Two articles: a study in 2007 that shows how short we are compared to other countries, and how that affects length of physician visits:
http://news.ucsf.edu/releases/comparison-study-shows-us-low-in-primary-care-physician-visits/
And an article on the shortage and its causes from the American Academy of Family Physicians published about a week and a half ago: http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/professional-issues/20090923medpac-pcps.html
“Insurance is a form of socialism”? You’re really reaching with that one, petergrt. It is a service provided by a capitalist approach: take people’s money for the promise of future payback. Calculated risk is at the heart of business!
Or did you think those big buildings in Hartford, Philadelphia, Boston, etc., were built by government?
You can argue that requiring insurance is a government action, but that still doesn’t make it socialism.
Socialism would bypass the whole system and simply own the healthcare system itself. No one’s suggesting that, least of all Obama.
ANandy almost 15 years ago
Another BozOTUS lie.
Motivemagus almost 15 years ago
No, look at it like this. We’re something like 29th healthiest now. With better healthcare, we will have more people being more productive more of the time. (Multiply total number of working adults by 1-2 days a year, and see how many person-years you get back!) A public-option healthcare plan will also lift a barrier for small-to-medium sized business of overpriced healthcare, so they can concentrate their money on growing their businesses. This lifts the economy, so we have more money to spend on the public option and more money in general. You can’t tell me this makes less sense than the “Laffer Curve…”
iamthelorax almost 15 years ago
Motive:”A public-option healthcare plan will also lift a barrier for small-to-medium sized business of overpriced healthcare”
Not really. The money has to come from somewhere, and it isn’t going to be from anything else than new taxes no matter what anybody tells you.
People would freak out if they took the entire tax burden on their own, so small, medium and large business will end up paying their portion of the health plan through taxes per employee.
Magnaut almost 15 years ago
Transparency…We can see right thru him…the Emperor has no clothes and…..no plan
petergrt almost 15 years ago
“We’re something like 29th healthiest now.”
That is a bogus statistic. If we were to compare health of Swedes living in Minnesota to those living in Sweden, than we would be comparing apples with apples.
There is nothing in any of the Democrat proposed ‘restructuring’ that would improve the health-care. There is a severe shortage of doctors and nurses - for starters …
iamthelorax almost 15 years ago
No one ever complains about it, but I wonder how much of the doctor shortage is because of the med schools. They price their programs out of affordability, they purposefully keep their graduate numbers low to boost their reputation, and then there are the politics with foreign doctors.
In Quebec, we actually have a high number of licensed doctors driving taxis because the medical college does not recognize Moroccan doctors. They won’t even give them the chance to take a test to see if they have the proper abilities; Meanwhile we sit and rot waiting in line at emergency clinics.
bikemaster almost 15 years ago
Petergrt has mentioned the most important FACT in this entire discussion. Please, all you Obama worshippers, how is it possible to suddenly increase demand for service, when it is impossible to suddenly increase those who give the service?
Motivemagus almost 15 years ago
Actually, I agree on the need for more doctors (and have said so repeatedly) – part of the problem with our system is that it is too doggoned expensive to become a doctor, which screens out some people and tilts those who do have enough towards high-paying specialties instead of general practice, which is where the real need is.
Kylop almost 15 years ago
Jim, I think the ‘toon would benefit from the Hippo being in water and the viewer being able to see pyramids in the background. Yes, its overdoing it. But I still think it would help.
deadheadzan almost 15 years ago
The major difference in keeping control of health care costs is having health care in a not for profit system.
nomad2112 almost 15 years ago
motivemagus, if we are down on the list of healthy nations it may have little to do with the current status of our health care system and much more to do with our obesity problem.
P.S. The ‘toon IS funny …
petergrt almost 15 years ago
It takes a bit more then money to become a doctor.
A few decades ago it was the highest paid profession.
Today, its attorneys, and no one is claiming that there is a shortage of law-schools or its products.
Ever since we have started to mess with the health-care system, under the pretense of controlling the costs, we have managed to turn able-bodied would be doctors into lawyers or such.
Motivemagus almost 15 years ago
petergrt, there are definitely not enough primary care physicians in this country, and they are the least-respected and most poorly-paid of the major MD-based professions. Furthermore, the biggest issue isn’t our messing with the healthcare system, it’s the insurance companies that force doctors into managing a zillion contradictory plans. Heck, if we could just get consistent coverage and required coverage despite preexisting conditions (which something like 70% of doctors support), we’d cut vast amounts of wastage out of the system and cost PCPs much less. Two articles: a study in 2007 that shows how short we are compared to other countries, and how that affects length of physician visits: http://news.ucsf.edu/releases/comparison-study-shows-us-low-in-primary-care-physician-visits/ And an article on the shortage and its causes from the American Academy of Family Physicians published about a week and a half ago: http://www.aafp.org/online/en/home/publications/news/news-now/professional-issues/20090923medpac-pcps.html
petergrt almost 15 years ago
Insurance is a form of socialism - spreading the risk.
The more universal or mandated insurance is the worse impact on price / value of service.
Imagine for a moment that there was no auto insurance available. Would there be more or less accidents and related costs?
Motivemagus over 14 years ago
“Insurance is a form of socialism”? You’re really reaching with that one, petergrt. It is a service provided by a capitalist approach: take people’s money for the promise of future payback. Calculated risk is at the heart of business! Or did you think those big buildings in Hartford, Philadelphia, Boston, etc., were built by government? You can argue that requiring insurance is a government action, but that still doesn’t make it socialism. Socialism would bypass the whole system and simply own the healthcare system itself. No one’s suggesting that, least of all Obama.