Lisa Benson for February 26, 2009

Well someone’s gotta’ give the economy a boot in the @ss.

HUMP You are right, but this looks more like a kick in the b@ll$.

let’s see, helping people go to college, reduction of dependence on foreign oil, environmentally efficient vehicles, healthcare for the 50 million people who don’t have insurance and thus can’t get any, reducing carbon emissions, helping people who lost their jobs stay in their homes … doesn’t sound like a kick in the b@lls to me sounds like building a foundation for a beleaguered middle class

believecommonsense You are correct, it is not a kick, it is more commonly known as socialism. Government control (health care system) and redistribution (government giving it to those who are poor).

MTT, please drop the “socialism” boogeyman. When society is strong we all benifit, instead of a small group of fear mongers.

mtt, nope, the number of people without healthcare insurance grows every year under the tyranny of the health insurance industry … it’s now up to 50 million people … and please note that does NOT include the very poor who receive Medicaid/state health insurance, so can’t blame the lazy, irresponsible poor this time … insurance accountants have as much if not more, say about your medical care than your own physicians … you want a concrete example? I’ll give you one … one of my co-workers had a daughter in college that needed surgery on her jaw because of a condition of the bone … she was covered under her parents’ health insurer, as she was only 20 … the health insurer directed her to receive the surgery, and the twice-weekly follow-up visits in Los Angeles, an eight-hour round trip from where she lived in San Luis Obispo … the parents appealed, pointing out no less than nine major medical centers closer to her college, including an excellent medical center in SLO … the HMO health insurer refused to give, no exceptions, it had to be in LA to be covered … ultimately the parents decided to pay 80 percent of the total bill themselves (the health insurers’ rules allowed them to pay only 20 percent of costs if members went elsewhere) because all the travel and time away from her education would have meant not being able to complete the semester …. that’s tyranny and it was all because it saved the insurance co. a few bucks because they’d negotiated lower rates with the LA. hospital … so in the end the insurance co. saved big bucks because their unconscionable rules allowed them to only have to pay 20 percent that’s just one example, I know many, some much worse, I wrote about healthcare issues as a reporter for a few years … the stories seem unbelievable but they are all TOO real… and you’re afraid of government having a say in healthcare ??

Better than eight years of one sign that just said “out to lunch”.

I’m trying to figure out just which of the signs Lisa has a problem with.

Is it “Universal Health Care” which exists in EVERY 1st World Country but ours?

“Digital TV” that will clear up the analog wavelengths for use by emergency responders and the like?

How about “Wind and Solar Power” that will reduce our dependence on oil “from countries that don’t particularly like us” as Bush would say.

How about “Carbon Credits” which work to reduce the amount of sludge we pump into the atmosphere so we can all breathe a little easier?

Maybe it’s the “Refinancing and Loans” so that people don’t have to worry about foreclosures.

“College”? Don’t tell me that you think college isn’t helpful.

Hybrid Cars? Which also reduce our dependence on oil “from countries that don’t particularly like us”?

Oh, I know. It’s “Family Planning” so that people don’t bring unwanted babies into the world, burdening our already overburdened foster care system.

Yeah, that must be it.

Humpries: While I have always wished for a government health program, I haven’t heard much good of the ones that I know about. England has one, I know, and the Netherlands. I heard that the taxes in England are more than 30 percent, annually and there is also the value added tax, which is not used on food. I googled this, and here is what one U.K. citizen had to say:

“basically if you work in the UK you pay one third of your wages in taxes and insurance, over here(in U.K.) I have found that I also pay about one third of my wages in taxes etc, BUT when you are sick over here,(U.K.) you do not get full sick pay, you use your vacation time which is usually 4 weeks a year, and then you pay for your pills, which can be quite a lot depending on what you have to get, your health insurance will pay a large part of the bills, but still leaves you to pay part of the bills, from doctors, radiologists, aneisthetists, and anyone else that has treated you. ”

What I am concerned about is : If we all receive health care, where does the money come from to pay for it? Anytime you give something to someone, you must take it from another. Unfortunately, leveling out wages seems to level out ambitions as well, which the Russians discovered when they socialized.-?

teague, i think you’re missing the point … it isn’t GIVING healthcare to people, it’s reforming our sick system that allows health insurance cos. to take 35 cents out of every dollar spent on healthcare for administrative costs, CEO salaries and bonuses, shareholder profits, etc … and they work to achieve that 35 percent by delaying, denying treatments, deciding ON THEIR OWN which medical treatments they’ll pay for and which ones they won’t, they determine what medications are on their “formulary” and what medications you have to pay for on your own even though you pay for their coverage … your doctor is NOT making these decisions, insurance staff are! I wish people would talk to physicians about the problems they encounter — how many employees they have to hire just to deal with the rules, delays of insurance cos., spending upwards of 45 min. on the phone just to get an insurance person on the line. healthcare is vital to a functioning, civil, modern society … why spend so much on those that contribute nothing to it? why not spend it on doctors, nurses, hospitals, and medical equipment? I just don’t get why people don’t see that this is not sustainable. Private health insurers are literally killing people sometimes, as well as wasting precious dollars that should be going for medical care. The U.S. has 50 million working people without health insurance. That is sick

I think teague is even missing a BIGGER point:

Everyone can get healthcare in this country. Even Bush admitted to this. It’s called “Emergency Rooms”, where what would’ve been a $100 ailment turns into a $50,000 bill because they don’t see a doctor and, instead, wait until they can’t wait anymore and go to the emergency room and skip out on the bill.

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather pay for the $100 ailment than the $50,000 hospital bill, don’t you?

“Where’s the money coming from?” you ask. Where’s the money coming from, indeed.

“So that is where he is going to get the money advertisement!”

No.

believecommonsense My point was not there is no problem. Because there is and I know that. Your a moron if you don’t agree. My point is that the government should not get control over it. Which is socialism. I don’t care if you do not believe it HUMP, but Germany where you live is a socialist society and their health care matches, it might be good here, but it is definitively bad in many other places (like taxes to match the amount of insurance I pay). danielsangeo Cause every 1st world country but ours is socialism. Wind and solar power are good but ULTRA expensive to set up. And less bang for the buck. Wind is relatively minimal in how much energy they put out and solar obviously only works when the sun it out. Tell an Alaskan to go solar someday. Carbon Credits is a way to suck money out of people, enough CREDIBLE (whether you feel they are or not has to do with them believe in what you do) scientist that claim there is not global warming OR that it is not man made. The loans is government control over your house. Sorry to say, stepping once again in to socialism. I don’t have as much of an issue with the collage thing, may if I knew what the means was deep inside though, but I don’t at this time. I don’t mind hybrid cars other then they take about 100,000 miles @ around $3 a gallon before they pay for themselves currently, not saying it could change and another thing to break down on the car. But should the gov. force it is the question. teaguemj Someone from England was here when gas was hitting close to $3 for the first time and he said it is Equiv. to $7 per gallon there. Socialism at work!

teaguemj, What does Great Britian have to do with me?

MTT, it works for me but I guess you’ll have to learn to live with your fears.

HUMP You could be right, or I could and USA could be starting socialism.

“Someone from England was here when gas was hitting close to $3 for the first time and he said it is Equiv. to $7 per gallon there. Socialism at work!”

When was the last time a bridge collapsed in England?

You don’t know the first thing about socialism. Socialism is where the government (the people) controls ALL means of production. We are so far from that right now, that comparing government oversight to socialism is foolish.

But keep removing all doubt; keep opening your mouth. :-)

(“every 1st world country but ours is socialism”…and they’re STILL “1st world”)

danielsangeo Name one that is doing well. I mean all it’s people. It is not fair, why do you feel taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor is fair??? And what does a bridge collapsing have anything to do with the price of tea in China? As well my point was we are stepping in the direction of socialism. Not that we are socialist now or not that the heath care system will make us socialist. Just we are stepping in that direction. The USA is in trouble due to poor politics from those like the inanely arrogant Emperor Obama.

Lets see. Ben Franklin made the Post Office a GOVERNMENT SERVICE. Republican EISENHOWER MADE IT A “BUSINESS’, how has that worked out? The Military WAS a service, GWB made WAR big business, how has that worked out? Health Care is owned by big business, how has that worked out? So far our Fire Dep’ts, and our law enforcement, are not Big Business, and they need help, but you will not privatize those entities, and you know why. , If they had to “make a profit”, and you owed back taxes, they surely would not waste good money coming to your house fire, or your mugging. Or would the Government fix the pot holes on your road, and if you were the only one on that road, AND paid your taxes, they would not fix your road if it was not at a profit.. .. Think about it.

mtt, you are using the word “socialism” as a bogeyman, and you do not know what it means. Don’t throw a word around as a insult if you don’t know its meaning. And collapsing bridges has nothing to do with tea in China but everything to do w/ poor funding of the infrastructure. That $7/gal. petrol in Britain pays for transportation infrastructure. Then you throw out the same old tired canards about alternative energy. How about “There’s no sense in working on vaccines, since they only work with one illness” or how about the people in the 70’s and 80’s who said computers would never catch on, they’re too big, they aren’t good for much except maybe doing math a little faster. We have slide rules and typing machines NOW, why waste your time on that thing. And NO there are NOT enough “credible” scientists who do not believe global climate change is a myth. How much longer are people like you going to remain flat earthers? When nearly every week more evidence comes out that not only is climate change happening, it’s happening faster and worse than was first projected? You’re so afraid you might be asked to make some changes that you’d rather just deny there’s a problem.

foxglove16 Liberals seem so eager to give all their money to the government, do so if you want, but don’t force me to with outrageous taxes on everything especially gas. I know what socialism is government ownership and redistribution. Don’t tell me I don’t know. About the cars, I said “I don’t mind hybrid cars other then they take about 100,000 miles @ around $3 a gallon before they pay for themselves currently, not saying it could change and another thing to break down on the car.” Meaning I DON’T MIND THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! I just say CURRENTLY they really don’t pay for themselves and I am sure it will change in the future. Read what I say before spouting non-sense about me and what I say. Yes the Scientists are CREDIBLE, but do not agree with you and your liberal causes so you insult them, like me. I don’t agree so I know nothing of what I say. Typical liberal. Do you know the past 2 years now the global temps have increased. I know I don’t know what I’m talking about, but that’s ok. I do know and you don’t have a clue, you are blinded by your master AG and feel you know everything and you know what best for me and the whole world. You pay the taxes you want so desperately to have everyone pay and worship Emperor Obama ever step of the way till this country fails. Of course, when it does you’ll just blame it all on Bush. Have a wonderful weekend.

MTT wrote: “I know I don’t know what I’m talking about, but that’s ok.” I was trying to follow you but that rant made no sense. Probably the difference between Liberals, whom you vilify so happily and incessantly, and neocons is that Liberals feel we are a united country, that we’re all in this together and responsible for each other. By the way, that’s Christian teaching as well. Neocons believe it’s every man and woman for him or herself. In the church, we call that love of mammon. Now, agreed, the technology for hybrids leaves a lot to be desired, but it is in all of our interest for the government to subsidize research to get them economically feasible as quickly as possible. As to global climate instability, please! You’re not one of those fools who says, “Oooh, it’s snowing! I guess there’s no global warming after all!” The thinning ozone layer and the melting Antarctic are not liberal inventions. The vast preponderance of scientists argue that global climate instability is real. You can always find a “scientist” to argue with the majority – look how many claimed smoking wasn’t bad for you. So, you go ahead and think human activity isn’t negatively affecting the environment. The rest of us will work hard to save your tail.

“Name one that is doing well. I mean all it’s people.”

Is that your test? Unless everyone in that department is doing its job well, no department is doing well? Do you allow the same for private business?

But, let’s go with your challenge:

Name one that is doing well? I’ll need some more information from you: “Name one that does well when it’s funded properly” or “name one that does well regardless of funding”?

If it’s the latter, I’ll have to ask you what business does its job well if it’s not making any money.

danielsangeo You know I meant 1 socialist government that is prosperous. Side note, isn’t it nice to know if in 4 years there are only 3,500,000 jobs left in the USA Emperor Obama is a success! He saved 3.5 million jobs, his is the liberal hero! I’ll say it again, the village idiot.

…what?