“Maybe life without Nationalism wouldn’t be so bad after all.”
.
I suspect it would be much worse.
.
The only places lacking nationalism have tribalism, even more limited in scope and care for those outside the tribe.
.
What most would actually prefer would be expanded tribalism/nationalism into globalism, considering everyone on the globe part of our group.
.
This also fails quickly because subsets within the global community would still have different goals.
.
Consider how upset Americans are to find that jobs once done by Americans can be and are being done by people in other parts of the world, say Pakistan where tribalism still rules. Many Americans would rather those people stay safely in The Dark Ages than compete for resources.
.
Both — not just one but both — of the main presidential candidates committed to rejecting free trade with people of other nations even though it improved the lives of the most humans. President Obama was thinking globally, few others were.
.
(Folks are also upset to discover robots can do more and more of the work once done by highly skilled humans. They oppose their replacement/displacement even though the newbies can do surgery faster and safer — with fewer fatalities, build cars cheaper but more reliable, gather the crops more sanitarily, cook the food more cleanly, drive the vehicle more safely. So even though it helps humanity as a whole, the fact that some are slightly worse off in some ways is more important to them.)
She said “Should go.” That they all should disappear. “Me first” has never been a long term strategy for success. Not in politics, not in nation building, not in family.
Regarding Agnes’ insightful comment, it occurs to me nationalism IS a form of racism even though a few nations have multiple races, racism IS a form of nationalism even though different races are found in multiple nations.
(When I worked in The People’s Republic of Angola, the civil war was really a war between tribes, aided by the USSR of course.)
.
Sexism is a form of nationalism, them against us, us against them..
I think the problem stems when people confuse patriotism with nationalism. Patriotism is being faithful to your country, while working to improve those aspects of it that need to be improved. Nationalism is thinking you are superior to others… and yes, nationalism is a form of racism.
“Taking jobs that made $75,000 a year, going to a poor country and paying them $20,000 to do it regardless of how poorly they accomplish it.”
.
Now THAT would be a poor business model.
Making a poorly designed and fabricated product will not work in a free society where people are free to not buy it does not matter how cheaply you made something you couldn’t sell.
The quick path to bankruptcy.
.
Now, making the more reasonable assumption that the new worker is able to produce an equal product, she didn’t take the job because the money wouldn’t raise her standard of living. Not hiring her is not for her own good but for your nationalist benefit.
.
Since others are free to make competitive products, this will result in more jobs to more workers, at a more affordable price to more people and more return on investment to more people.
.
“Capitalism must be given limits and directed to aid society and its inhabitants or it creates a place where only the few get most of the wealth and the rest work long hours with little or no protections.”
.
It already has limits.
What you are proposing is using it as a social program, diverting its focus from success for whatever the current administration (soon to be the Trump Administration) feels is important.
This should be self-evidently foolish since Trump may possibly have bad goals, doesn’t know or care for social programs and may get bad advice even if he did.
.
Despite your beliefs, the few do not get most of the wealth. They paid the wealthy for products and services they valued more than their money. Remember that money is just a medium of exchange not wealth itself.
.
Limitations on working hours and conditions are a separate matter and
Limitations on working hours and conditions are a separate matter and subject to regulation as al health issues are. Protecting citizens from those who would harm them is a valid and reasonable part of the framework of that protection.
.
Just so you do it fairly and without misconceptions, always remembering any powers given to government should be given in such a way that you wouldn’t mind your worst enemy wielding them because at some time in the future, he probably will.
paha_siga almost 8 years ago
Oh dear, I’m afraid you will get detention until New Year now.
Dani Rice almost 8 years ago
I realize it borders on heresy, but I’ve never felt that just because you were born in a certain place, that makes it perfect.
neatslob Premium Member almost 8 years ago
Unfortunately all three are making a comeback. They never actually were gone, or course, but at least they were in the shadows for a while.
magicwalnut almost 8 years ago
Agnes has it absolutely right.
David Huie Green LoveJoyAndPeace almost 8 years ago
Jeff0811 said,
“Maybe life without Nationalism wouldn’t be so bad after all.”
.
I suspect it would be much worse.
.
The only places lacking nationalism have tribalism, even more limited in scope and care for those outside the tribe.
.
What most would actually prefer would be expanded tribalism/nationalism into globalism, considering everyone on the globe part of our group.
.
This also fails quickly because subsets within the global community would still have different goals.
.
Consider how upset Americans are to find that jobs once done by Americans can be and are being done by people in other parts of the world, say Pakistan where tribalism still rules. Many Americans would rather those people stay safely in The Dark Ages than compete for resources.
.
Both — not just one but both — of the main presidential candidates committed to rejecting free trade with people of other nations even though it improved the lives of the most humans. President Obama was thinking globally, few others were.
.
(Folks are also upset to discover robots can do more and more of the work once done by highly skilled humans. They oppose their replacement/displacement even though the newbies can do surgery faster and safer — with fewer fatalities, build cars cheaper but more reliable, gather the crops more sanitarily, cook the food more cleanly, drive the vehicle more safely. So even though it helps humanity as a whole, the fact that some are slightly worse off in some ways is more important to them.)
.
Agnes’ principal would understand.
well-i-never almost 8 years ago
She said “Should go.” That they all should disappear. “Me first” has never been a long term strategy for success. Not in politics, not in nation building, not in family.
David Huie Green LoveJoyAndPeace almost 8 years ago
Regarding Agnes’ insightful comment, it occurs to me nationalism IS a form of racism even though a few nations have multiple races, racism IS a form of nationalism even though different races are found in multiple nations.
(When I worked in The People’s Republic of Angola, the civil war was really a war between tribes, aided by the USSR of course.)
.
Sexism is a form of nationalism, them against us, us against them..
Maizing almost 8 years ago
I think the problem stems when people confuse patriotism with nationalism. Patriotism is being faithful to your country, while working to improve those aspects of it that need to be improved. Nationalism is thinking you are superior to others… and yes, nationalism is a form of racism.
rshive almost 8 years ago
Klud might aqree with Agnes, if he had a sense of history.
BlueIris Premium Member almost 8 years ago
When making a joke, it’s best to make sure that others understand it as a joke; for example, putting a :) or something. :) (friendly comment)
David Huie Green LoveJoyAndPeace almost 8 years ago
Night-Gaunt49 said,
@DavidHuieGreen
“Taking jobs that made $75,000 a year, going to a poor country and paying them $20,000 to do it regardless of how poorly they accomplish it.”
.
Now THAT would be a poor business model.
Making a poorly designed and fabricated product will not work in a free society where people are free to not buy it does not matter how cheaply you made something you couldn’t sell.
The quick path to bankruptcy.
.
Now, making the more reasonable assumption that the new worker is able to produce an equal product, she didn’t take the job because the money wouldn’t raise her standard of living. Not hiring her is not for her own good but for your nationalist benefit.
.
Since others are free to make competitive products, this will result in more jobs to more workers, at a more affordable price to more people and more return on investment to more people.
.
“Capitalism must be given limits and directed to aid society and its inhabitants or it creates a place where only the few get most of the wealth and the rest work long hours with little or no protections.”.
It already has limits.
What you are proposing is using it as a social program, diverting its focus from success for whatever the current administration (soon to be the Trump Administration) feels is important.
This should be self-evidently foolish since Trump may possibly have bad goals, doesn’t know or care for social programs and may get bad advice even if he did.
.
Despite your beliefs, the few do not get most of the wealth. They paid the wealthy for products and services they valued more than their money. Remember that money is just a medium of exchange not wealth itself.
.
Limitations on working hours and conditions are a separate matter and
David Huie Green LoveJoyAndPeace almost 8 years ago
Limitations on working hours and conditions are a separate matter and subject to regulation as al health issues are. Protecting citizens from those who would harm them is a valid and reasonable part of the framework of that protection.
.
Just so you do it fairly and without misconceptions, always remembering any powers given to government should be given in such a way that you wouldn’t mind your worst enemy wielding them because at some time in the future, he probably will.