“You cannot be a witness for Jesus if you have taken a vow of silence.
“Where did the Roman Catholic Church get the idea to do that?
“It’s not in the Bible.”
Well, where do I begin?
Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the Gospel always. When necessary, use words.” Actions always speak more loudly than words.
Not many of any faith take vows of silence, just as not many monks do either. However, some are called to it. Nor, in most cases, are the vows absolute. They are partial, to free us from distractions.
God accepts us and the gifts we are willing to dedicate to Him. Monks, for example, do not give up the married life out of disdain and hatred for women–rather, they have an all-consuming need to seek God such that they cannot be fair to a wife also.
As Catholics, we have the Bible to remind us of who Jesus is and where to look for him; not everything the Christ said and did is in the Bible (John 21:25). There are many ways to serve God. It is sad when some Churches cannot accept those ways because “they are not in the Bible.”
As for the cushions–no, I’m not particularly tempted. But I know some who would be…
Thank you, Joe, for pointing out a minor error of usage, which I am happy to correct. But, just to take one example, Paul in 1 Cor 1 often uses just “Christ”, as in “After all, Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel; and not by means of wisdom of language, wise words which would make the cross of Christ pointless.”
(1 Cor 1:17, New Jerusalem Bible). Even the New Testament authors use “Christ” as a shorthand for Jesus of Nazareth.
You say, “Although the Eastern Church recognized the position of the Bishop of Rome, it was the Eastern Church which finally canonized their version of the Biblical Anthology in 397AD.”
But, at that time, there was only one group, called the “Catholic” (as in Universal) or “Orthodox” Church. Well, there were other groups–Arian Christians, Nestorians, and such. But the universal Church was not yet divided East and West. And, whoever approved the Canon of books in the Bible first, both approved and accepted it within a short time. Indeed, I believe the first complete list, unless memory fails me, was from a North African synod.
You say, ‘The Roman Catholic Church ignores lots of stuff practiced by the New Testament Church which was called “The Way.” ’
But, by that argument, so does every other church. And we do have some traditions practiced from the Way as described in Acts that at least some members still practice. Holding all possessions in common, gathering several times daily to pray, holding the breaking of the Bread, to name just a few that come readily to mind. Or being “eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven.” Or dedicating our lives to serve God–in a variety of ways.
Oh, Joe: one other point: in my reference to Francis of Assisi, do you see anything referring to him as a saint? So why do you object to the practice of canonization or referring to saints? It seems disingenuous to bring up something simply to object to it. And I was consciously avoiding that, since you have objected to it in the past.
But what about the point I was making: that to preach the Gospel not a word need be said in some cases?
Bmonk
That’s just the way Joe works, argue his point and he will change the argument. By doing so, he often (unwittingly) cedes his own point and doesn’t even notice.
Thank you for taking him to task, though it is a pointless exercise. One has to pity him.
margueritem over 14 years ago
bmonk, that’s really you, isn’t it?
ejcapulet over 14 years ago
Can’t blame him, I bet monastery life can get pretty dull.
carmy over 14 years ago
bmonk, be careful, it’s the extra loud version.
celeconecca over 14 years ago
Love it!
Dry and Dusty Premium Member over 14 years ago
Why bmonk, I’m surprised at you! (NOT!) ROFLMAO!!
rainman5353 over 14 years ago
Amen!
bmonk over 14 years ago
Joe-Allen “Joe” Doty said, about 12 hours ago
“You cannot be a witness for Jesus if you have taken a vow of silence.
“Where did the Roman Catholic Church get the idea to do that?
“It’s not in the Bible.”
Well, where do I begin?
Francis of Assisi said, “Preach the Gospel always. When necessary, use words.” Actions always speak more loudly than words.
Not many of any faith take vows of silence, just as not many monks do either. However, some are called to it. Nor, in most cases, are the vows absolute. They are partial, to free us from distractions.
God accepts us and the gifts we are willing to dedicate to Him. Monks, for example, do not give up the married life out of disdain and hatred for women–rather, they have an all-consuming need to seek God such that they cannot be fair to a wife also.
As Catholics, we have the Bible to remind us of who Jesus is and where to look for him; not everything the Christ said and did is in the Bible (John 21:25). There are many ways to serve God. It is sad when some Churches cannot accept those ways because “they are not in the Bible.”
As for the cushions–no, I’m not particularly tempted. But I know some who would be…
Ushindi over 14 years ago
Loud applause here for both jtpozenel and rainman5353, but ‘tis a forlorn hope for us all…
bmonk over 14 years ago
Thank you, Joe, for pointing out a minor error of usage, which I am happy to correct. But, just to take one example, Paul in 1 Cor 1 often uses just “Christ”, as in “After all, Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel; and not by means of wisdom of language, wise words which would make the cross of Christ pointless.” (1 Cor 1:17, New Jerusalem Bible). Even the New Testament authors use “Christ” as a shorthand for Jesus of Nazareth.
You say, “Although the Eastern Church recognized the position of the Bishop of Rome, it was the Eastern Church which finally canonized their version of the Biblical Anthology in 397AD.”
But, at that time, there was only one group, called the “Catholic” (as in Universal) or “Orthodox” Church. Well, there were other groups–Arian Christians, Nestorians, and such. But the universal Church was not yet divided East and West. And, whoever approved the Canon of books in the Bible first, both approved and accepted it within a short time. Indeed, I believe the first complete list, unless memory fails me, was from a North African synod.
You say, ‘The Roman Catholic Church ignores lots of stuff practiced by the New Testament Church which was called “The Way.” ’
But, by that argument, so does every other church. And we do have some traditions practiced from the Way as described in Acts that at least some members still practice. Holding all possessions in common, gathering several times daily to pray, holding the breaking of the Bread, to name just a few that come readily to mind. Or being “eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven.” Or dedicating our lives to serve God–in a variety of ways.
bmonk over 14 years ago
Oh, Joe: one other point: in my reference to Francis of Assisi, do you see anything referring to him as a saint? So why do you object to the practice of canonization or referring to saints? It seems disingenuous to bring up something simply to object to it. And I was consciously avoiding that, since you have objected to it in the past.
But what about the point I was making: that to preach the Gospel not a word need be said in some cases?
celeconecca over 14 years ago
@Bmonk I have that quote on my office wall as a daily reminder.
rainman5353 over 14 years ago
Bmonk That’s just the way Joe works, argue his point and he will change the argument. By doing so, he often (unwittingly) cedes his own point and doesn’t even notice. Thank you for taking him to task, though it is a pointless exercise. One has to pity him.