Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for August 16, 2013

‘But it’s “Thank you, Mr Atkins” when the guns begin to pound.’

I get the Kipling reference, but why “Mr Atkins”?

Is Mr Weinberg suggesting that it should be “Miss” or “Ms” Atkins?

Not always. Sometimes they let you off. Look at Florida.

What this arc of the strip is about is best shown by Melissa in counselling shortly after we met her, back in 2007; read the week that starts here:http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2007/07/16Nothing there to suggest that she is gay, although plenty of reason why she would feel more comfortable having female colleagues as friends rather than male ones.

On the other hand, what your comments are about, I’m really not sure. They honestly don’t show too much connection with what is in the strip, so I can only assume you have some issues to work out yourself – I’m not sure that6you doing that here in public is going to be helpful for you.

I’ve never Kippled.

Tommy

by Rudyard Kipling I WENT into a public ‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,The publican ‘e up an’ sez, " We serve no red-coats here."The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ " Tommy, go away " ;But it’s " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to playThe band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,O it’s " Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,They gave a drunk civilian room, but ’adn’t none for me;They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ " Tommy, wait outside ";But it’s " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper’s on the tideThe troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,O it’s " Special train for Atkins " when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleepIs cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap.An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bitIs five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Tommy, ’ow’s yer soul? "But it’s " Thin red line of ‘eroes " when the drums begin to rollThe drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,O it’s " Thin red line of ’eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be’ind,"But it’s " Please to walk in front, sir," when there’s trouble in the windThere’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,O it’s " Please to walk in front, sir," when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our faceThe Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! "But it’s " Saviour of ‘is country " when the guns begin to shoot;An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;An ‘Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool – you bet that Tommy sees! First published, under the title “The Queen’s Uniform”, in W.E. Henley’s weekly Scots Observer (later to become the National Observer) on 1 March 1890 and in the St. James’s Gazette on the same day.

The Last of the Light Brigade Rudyard Kipling 1890

There were thirty million English who talked of England’s might,There were twenty broken troopers who lacked a bed for the night.They had neither food nor money, they had neither service nor trade;They were only shiftless soldiers, the last of the Light Brigade.

They felt that life was fleeting; they knew not that art was long,That though they were dying of famine, they lived in deathless song.They asked for a little money to keep the wolf from the door;And the thirty million English sent twenty pounds and four !

They laid their heads together that were scarred and lined and grey;Keen were the Russian sabres, but want was keener than they;And an old Troop-Sergeant muttered, “Let us go to the man who writesThe things on Balaclava the kiddies at school recites.”

They went without bands or colours, a regiment ten-file strong,To look for the Master-singer who had crowned them all in his song;And, waiting his servant’s order, by the garden gate they stayed,A desolate little cluster, the last of the Light Brigade.

They strove to stand to attention, to straighen the toil-bowed back;They drilled on an empty stomach, the loose-knit files fell slack;With stooping of weary shoulders, in garments tattered and frayed,They shambled into his presence, the last of the Light Brigade.

The old Troop-Sergeant was spokesman, and “Beggin’ your pardon,” he said,“You wrote o’ the Light Brigade, sir. Here’s all that isn’t dead.An’ it’s all come true what you wrote, sir, regardin’ the mouth of hell;For we’re all of us nigh to the workhouse, an’ we thought we’d call an’ tell.

“No, thank you, we don’t want food, sir; but couldn’t you take an’ writeA sort of ‘to be continued’ and ‘see next page’ o’ the fight?We think that someone has blundered, an’ couldn’t you tell ’em how?You wrote we were heroes once, sir. Please, write we are starving now.”

The poor little army departed, limping and lean and forlorn.And the heart of the Master-singer grew hot with “the scorn of scorn.”And he wrote for them wonderful verses that swept the land like flame,Till the fatted souls of the English were scourged with the thing called Shame.

They sent a cheque to the felon that sprang from an Irish bog;They healed the spavined cab-horse; they housed the homeless dog;And they sent (you may call me a liar), when felon and beast were paid,A cheque, for enough to live on, to the last of the Light Brigade.

O thirty million English that babble of England’s might,Behold there are twenty heroes who lack their food to-night;Our children’s children are lisping to "honour the charge they made – "And we leave to the streets and the workhouse the charge of the Light Brigade!

We do much better by our veterans than the British did in 1890, but there are still a lot them homeless or unemployed in the America of 2013. In the 19th century, armies were recruited chiefly from the dregs of society. Pay and living conditions were terrible. The U.S. army lost 25% of its enlisted men to desertion each year. Before the Civil War, army officers could not afford to retire at any age, as there were no pensions. “Why should we pay someone who is no longer working?” was the philosophy in Congress. Most who decry “big government” forget that the growth of big government went hand-in-hand with the growth of the “military-industrial complex” and that the military is the biggest government program and biggest government employer by far. Few “small government” types really want polluted air and water, decaying infrastructure, or the elimination of police and fire protection, or the sort of small, weak, ill-equipped military that the U.S. had before the progressive era. The only part of government operations they actually wish to cut are those intended to improve, protect and/or aid those whom they consider their moral or intellectual inferiors. Such people deserve to suffer, in their estimation. They regard it as a sort of “law of nature.”

Except in Florida. Also a medal.

There are a certain number of people here who like to push buttons and see what happens. Did that make you mad? Ok how about that? What if I use abusive language, how about that? And on it goes… Meanwhile, the countdown is on for GT to come back.

@montessoriteacher

Spoken like an experienced mother! It seems some adults with time on their hands and unresolved issues revert to this classic kids’ game.

@Doughfoot

Thanks for the full text of both of those Kipling poems, as it saved me from having to go find them. Always good to revisit, and I appreciate your follow-up commentary, too.

What do you mean by “your policy”? All Murray said was that sometimes, if you kill someone you think is a bad guy, you are not punished for it. You seem to be talking to someone else.

“Do you like Kipling, Miss Scarlet?”“Sure, I’ll try anything.”Clue

" Even if the people are still innocent, not proven guilty and they aren’t the only ones killed by that Hellfire missile."-There are instances in which the threat to others is greater than the desire to execute perfect justice. If a man holds a gun to a child’s head, waiting for a trial is likely to be too late.As the judge told Jessey Jackson, Jr and wife recently, “Don’t blame the court for the suffering the sentence causes your children. YOU are to blame for their suffering.” (or words to that effect)

“If you kill on your own you are a murderer, kill for our govt, and you are a hero”-Not always but sometimes. We believe some groups are a threat bad enough to be met with deadly force. Failing to do so may result in the deaths of millions of innocent people.-(Pushing people around for the fun of it is not justified and sometimes our government has required military action for that purpose. A soldier doesn’t get to see the big picture and know which type of action is involved. Hence the nightmares.)

I still find the strip amusing, the comments are very juvenile tho.

In a utopian world , without diverse nations and governments, perhaps your position is valid. As things are, arrest and trial of criminals is not always possible. An “In Absentia” verdict would be no fairer. Would-be mass killers (and those surrounding them as supporters and abettors of them and their deeds, open themselves to collateral punishment by continuing in that role. Would you support removal of the “deadly Force” option from ALL law enforcement, no matter the circumstance?…if one of yours were the victim? Or would it be more ethical to (as in past wars) to carpet-bomb with 10 tons of ordnance from a B-2 to accomplish the same end? A terrorist is a terrorist, no matter his/her nationality/religion/residence/companions…inviting retribution by his/her actions (if obvious) – legally attributed or not…on him/herself and those surrounding. Minimizing (if not eliminating) such collateral damage may be the best that can be accomplished while pperforming (like Cancer surgery) the excision of the malignancy. I don’t like it either, but sometimes a necessity for the greater good.