Arlo and Janis by Jimmy Johnson for August 12, 2013

Talk about machines doing what they were meant to do…They say that when they were launched, that the technology at the time couldn’t receive the signals from the crafts where they are now……..But our technology now can…There has to be a lesson in there somewhere….Those crafts really are an achievement that can not be ignored in the history of humans…

So if they are absolutely useless and result from acting “unbelievable” [sic] stupid, then how are you typing your comments? Using a stylus on a slate board, or cuneiform letters? V1 and V 2 are examples of dreaming for the sake of dreaming and getting returns a thousandfold. Have a little romance and dream big sometime.

@ jeffc42:So you believe that being able to answer the question of how many angels can fit on the head of a pin moves civilization to a higher level. the_kraut, like me, believes that answering questions of this sort does not.

Janis is no rocket scientist…

Seems to me that people used to complain about the “useless Japanese junk” once upon a time. Now we’ve moved on to China. Progress I guess . . .

The Kraut sounds pretty sauer even for a troll.

Yeah, but my cell phone bill wouldn’t be a billion dollars for 36 years.

obviously, intelligent life doen’t reside here…

Makes ya wonder, eh?

Why do humans always believe “the aliens” are out to eat us? Maybe they are just friendly folks, sitting on the front porch, watching the world go by.

“…the American way of thinking which sometimes is dangerously naïve.”More so than most Americans would care to admit.

“What is wrong with “unbelievable”? I am sorry if I made a mistake, English is not my first language, I am German.”

Herr Kraut, you’re doing very well with English if it’s not your first language. I was going to say “if it’s your second language,” but for all I know, you’re also fluent in French and who knows what else. Anyhow, since you asked, instead of “unbelievable” in the sentence, “You can be a technologically far advanced nation, but this will not prevent you from acting unbelievable stupid,” you should use “unbelievably.” “Unbelievably” is an adverb that modifies “stupid.” (How stupid? Unbelievably stupid!) “Stupid” is an adjective which modifies the pronoun “you.” Since an adjective (unbelievable) can’t modify another adjective (stupid), one uses the adverb form, “unbelievably.” Sometimes a wrong part of speech is used humorously, but you evidently didn’t mean to do that in this case.

As I recall, the purpose of V1 and V2 was to explore the outer reaches of the solar system, not visit other solar systems. The money is better spent there than on giving another 3 years of unemployment benefits to half the country.

Arlo just needs to take that cell phone away from Janis.

I am trying to respect your perspective, but I don’t think you know very much about what those probes have been telling us, especially lately……Please read up on these things before you express your opinion. You are acting just like most of us Americans, here, and thus have just turned your whole rant on yourself….

One very small comment: The human race has been “intelligent” (and indeed quite interesting) since thousands of years before we had radio communications.  And even if there were no humans or apes, this planet is still fascinating and worth exploring.  My point: A solar system may be worth exploring even if we have never received radio signals from it.

Bitte.sehr! It was my pleasure. I used to teach English – felt as though I was back in the harness.

the_krout, you probably think chucking pumkins for distance is silly too…..I think it’s awesome

This goes on frequently in the car: I’ll be driving and saying something to my wife, who is too tied up in her texting, to say nothing of phone calls, to hear what I’m saying. Drives me stark, raving nuts.

Gokie5: Good explanation. Now can anyone explain to me why it is der Luftzug, die Schiff, but das Frauline?

Thanks for the laugh. I enjoyed your post. You are still a troll but a funny one. Oh if you were serious then you are a self absorbed bafoon. :)

Varnes said: “Those crafts really are an achievement that cannot be ignored in the history of humans…”

the_kraut said: “Why not? They are absolutely useless! The next star to our solar system is Proxima Centari or Alpha Centauri c. The distance to this red dwarf is 4.243 light years….”—-The Voyager probes are indeed useless…as interstellar probes, because they were not designed to be such. Remember that they were only meant as interplanetary probes. That job they have done quite well, far exceeding the original expectations.

“If there would be intelligent life near Alpha or Proxima Centauri we would know this by now. We would have received some kind of radio signals.”—-This is irrelevant to the Voyager mission, since their instruments are meant for collecting planetary data in this system.

“I personally think it is a good thing that Voyager I or II are just useless toys and will never reach intelligent life in the universe during the existence of mankind.”—-Again, they are not meant for contact work.

“I don’t want to become a slave or food reserve of aliens.”—-Interstellar travel is, according to the best physics we have, so difficult that we expect that no one will go out into the galaxy to find slaves or food. Machinery will do the slaves’ work, and food can be grown or manufactured far more easily than by interstellar plundering.

“But after crossing the orbit of Pluto the signals of Voyager I became to weak to read them.”—-Incorrect. We are still receiving their signals because our equipment is now good enough for it (as Varnes noted).

“During their intergalactical journey these probes are dead, just scrap iron. What sense does this make?”—-As Charles Smith said: “Additionally, and some might argue more importantly, they continue to relay data that increases our knowledge of astronomy, physics, and solar genesis. They are not inert purposeless lumps sent out without purpose.”

“In near future we will have propulsion systems which are several times faster than the speed with which the Voyager probes travel. This enables a space ship or a space probe to jump in front of the Voyagers. How is that?”—-Even if we develop the capacity to jump ahead of the Voyagers, we already have the information they could give us. More advanced probes will be able to gather data in realms that the Voyagers cannot reach before their batteries expire.

“I doubt if we will receive information about the Kuiper belt or the Oort cloud under the circumstances.”—Indeed. For that, we shall have to send faster and/or longer-lived probes. Again, the Voyager mission was not designed for investigating those areas - but that is not a fault, or a waste. (Your car was not designed to float. If you want to float, get a boat — but don’t blame the car’s designers for not intending to have a floating car.)

" What if our “neighbors” communicate using an entirely different means and never thought to check the frequncies we use? What if they are sitting there just waiting to bring us a “welcome to the neighborhood” pie?"-Or to obliterate us.Always a possibility.-Our signals get extremely weak over distance and would easily get lost in the background noise.-And then there’s the time lag. Objects 50 light-years away would not receive our broadcasts for 50 years and if they responded immediately, we would not receive their response for another 50 years.100 light-years have a 200 year turn-around time.-Admitedly closer objects with civilizations would have shorter turn-around times.At one time most of our international communications were through communications satellites. Nowadays it is mostly through submarine fiber optic cables and not something they would receive. -There are still plenty of radio broadcasts, though. They might be picking up DirecTV in a few decades.

“What is wrong with “unbelievable”?”-You were using it as an adverb.The adverbial form is “unbelievably”We forgive you this time, just don’t do it again.

" the time window is too small."-Probably but maybe not. -It is possible there are civilizations existing between stars and some might have members very close to our solar system.-It is possible there are “berserker” type devices set up to destroy any civilization and those might be on their way right now.-It is possible there really IS a back door approach allowing travel over great distances without touching the speed of light limitation. (We don’t know of any, but there are several things we don’t know, such as exactly what is dark energy and what is dark matter, just for examples.)

“As I already mentioned: I don’t see myself as a troll. And the sauer kraut is such an old joke …Sorry but it isn’t funny anymore.”-Maybe not to YOU but I find myself salivating at the thought.

just because Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence is searching for signs of life around other stars using radio as a means of communication, does not mean they are checking the frequencies at which it is being used.-In fact, spread spectrum is a perfect example of why we might not notice even if they were. Done properly, it would sound at most like static. In fact, it can be used to communicate even when signal strength is below that of static, so if we didn’t know what to listen for, we might miss it by a tiny margin of error or a large one.

“But after crossing the orbit of Pluto the signals of Voyager I became to weak to read them.During their intergalactical journey these probes are dead, just scrap iron. What sense does this make?”-What sense does it make for tissue paper to continue to exist after it has wiped our noses?-It’s not a matter of sense, it is simply the First Law of Thermodynamics. It did exist and it still exists even after designed use is ended. (it still carries snail mail of sorts if any intellegent beings ever intercept it.)-Crossing the orbit of Pluto had nothing to do with signal strength. (In fact, part of the path of Pluto’s orbit is inside that of Neptune’s orbit and is every 20 or so years out of every 248 or so) Signal strength is dependent on available power and that is from a thermocouple generator powered by decay of Plutonium-238. Initial power was around 470 watts, it has been going down ever since as the plutonium and the thermocouples have decayed

“As far as I know Voyager I and II are hurtling currently through a zone which is called heliosheath depletion region. "-I think we call it the heliopause, the point at which the solar wind ceases to dominate and the interstellar “wind” dominates.-As you pointed out, new designs for propulsion may make it possible to pass the Voyagers in a relatively short time. After all, they are only leaving the sun at a rate of about 16 to 17 kilometers per second.

“of course you also face the Fermi paradox”-Drake’s Equation: using reasonable estimates of number of stars, number of planets, percent bearing life, percent of those bearing intelligent life, the universe should be full of life.

Fermi asked, Then where are they?-The equation should be correct. The number of intelligent life forms in the universe should be something like the number of stars, times the number of life bearing planets on average per star, times the number of times life bearing planets produce intelligent life forms, divided by the average life span of intelligent life forms per planet.-For example, the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old. It has held intelligent beings capable of producing radio waves around 120 years. How long we will continue to exist and produce radio waves is uncertain.-The assumptions might be off.They may just not be talking to us.There may be something wiping out intelligent beings ere they communicate with us.We may be looking in the wrong direction or using the wrong senses.They may just be too far away to detect.

“said by someone who’s forebearers started two wars and lost them both with in a generation.”-Actually, they started many wars just as the USA has done. They were on the losing side of two world wars, but maybe next time….

“We have more than enough work to do on our world alone. We haven’t even explored all of it and it is changing beyond measure.”-Nothing says it is an “either or” proposition. We can explore all. it would be silly not to.

“It was blamed on Germany but they weren’t the only ones”-a lot of folks were spoiling for a fight and figured they wouldn’t be hurt and would hurt those they disliked or desired resources from.It happens over and over.