He had better learn to keep his mouth shut - and soon! He seems to be chomping on it in a BIG way every couple of months. I hope Ellie puts her foot down the next time HE wants to go out with the boys for an evening!
I’m glad Elly finally stuck up for herself instead of throwing the usual fit.
Psychobabble it all you want to, this is the way men think. It’s the way they always were, and the way they still are, even though these days, some of them may less inclined to admit it. It’s the primal nature of the beast. I don’t care what anyone says to the contrary (which is coming, since it always does.), That’s the truth. There are shelves full of books in the stores, because as simple as men really are to understand, women don’t want to see it, so they say it isn’t so, and live with the consequences of doing so, then end up on talk shows complaining about it.
He knew where she was, he told Michael. He just didn’t like it, because he wasn’t in control of her. This is a man who gives his wife work appliances as gifts. She is effectively chattel in the back of his man mind. We’ve seen it consistently. Repeat chorus #2.
Elly wins today, and she did it without screaming. Bravo, until tomorrow.
~Note~ I am not bashing men.
They can’t help the way nature wired them.
I have noted a kind of gender-based double standard on the issue of “reporting in.” Women (and in my experience this begins with the mother and continues with the wife) expect to be told where the man is and when he plans to be home, and there will be consequences if the man fails to file his flight plan. On the other hand, while they don’t do it as often, women seem to expect that they can disappear for the evening without phoning home, and face no consequences come morning.
I suspect this has to do with stereotyping: when the man is “off leash,” there seems to be the assumption he is up to no good; e.g., drinking himself blind and/or cheating on his spouse. Meanwhile, the stereotypical woman, should she disappear for the evening, is probably at a sewing circle or a church meeting; definitely not doing anything dangerous or unsavory (oh yeah? and just who are all those men cheating with, anyway?).
Judging by the number of commenters taking Elly’s side in this dispute, I suspect FBoFW’s online readership is overwhelmingly female…
I vote for worried sick spouse/parent. John’s fatherhood is coming out… And yes, I know Elly’s his WIFE, not his daughter; but from a loving male’s perspective, the two are very similar.
BTDT, in fact. I never knew which one I worried about more - wife or daughter. Even today, with wife an Ex, and Daughter clear across the country… and Daughter 32 yo at that… I still worry.
Radio Tom: I know when I stay away longer than I anticipated, I try to let my husband know I’m OK. I’m not checking in (so the feminists can relax), I’m just trying to ease the mind of the man I love. He does have a tendency to worry.
Oh John! You better keep your mouth shaddup and make a silent for a while. Let Elly have good time for once in her lifetime! Apparently, John is a worrywart!
LOLs! I love the way Elly showed her “facial expression” while John spilled out of his mouth about knowing where she is.
John has every right to be concerned that she went bar hopping without letting him know. The only reason she did not, was that she was up to no good. Women can’t help that they lie and cheat, that’s how nature wired them.
Wow..gotta love how a strip can bring out the true thinking of some people. Bashing and such. And no..this is not aimed at any one person.
Ok… here’s my take. I come from an abusive background, so automatically, I saw John as being a control freak, and of course hypocritical.
However, there are two Sides to Every story, that being said, I have to take into account that Elly didn’t really tell John, at least..not that I know of. Well More to the point, she didn’t Ask him, like he asked her.
Never mind how she felt when he went….the point is He asked, She said Yes.
She could have asked, and the outcome would be different.
I digress….
So after looking at both sides. I think that John was really worried about her. Back then, women were seen as needing protection. And sometimes are still seen that way.
For all of her faults, John loves Elly, and like most of us who loves someone, we put the Worst scenario into our minds when we’re confronted with the unknown.
Now, when My boyfriend goes out, be it to his friend’s house, or to his mom, or even cross country to see his dad, Guess what? The worst case scenario goes through my mind. always. But in the end, I trust him, and i know he’s ok.
He goes through the same with me. :) So, my point after this TL;DR is that I believe John was really worried, and well lets face it…
Most [not all. i HATE blanket groupings] Most men do not know how, or are capable of sharing there feelings…for Most men it’s a Learned thing,
And most Women [again, not All] are wired to be fairly high strung and emotional. As such we tend to react stronger to things. And some better than others. [again..Most..not ALL]
Elly and John simply need to learn how to communicate better. And take each others quirks in stride.
Many husbands would think the same thing but know better than to say it, because it would reveal how totally self-centered they are. What makes this cartoon funny is that John actually says what he, and others, are thinking and makes us realize what is going within people – maybe even ourselves.
I don’t see why people are taking offence at what John said. It was totally innocent - and exactly what he was thinking - and only after he said it, might he have considered how it sounded.
So he knew where she was when he went out? Well, he did! That’s just the relationship they had! So what?
Neither of them looks in great pain, or very angry - it looks like it’s just a quiet discussion. In fact, rather unlike strips when Ellie screams to high heaven over something. I found it a refreshing change. I remember thinking as I read it, “See? So they can sometimes relate as a normal, reasonable married couple!” Boy, did everybody else disagree with me!
JanCinVV: I’m with you on that one. I don’t have to “check-in” with my husband regarding my precise-to-the-minute whereabouts because he knows he’s got nothing to worry about regarding my fidelity. But I let him know where I’m going and when I expect to be back so he won’t worry - and wonder! - where I am (and he does the same for me). It’s just common courtesy and a show of respect we have for each other because we’re both worriers. If something were to happen and one of us not only didn’t return home at the expected time but also didn’t call to say there was a change in plans, then the other would have a starting place to begin looking for them (especially if the police end up having to be called. That’s sad to say but that’s just the world we’re now living in these days).
As I said, it’s just common courtesy and a show of respect for the person you’re married to … especially if you know they’re a worrier.
wndrwrthg: GMAB!!!!! I’m guessing you’re a man … and a single one at that!
Here’s a question for you: Just who is it exactly you think these lying, cheating women are lying and cheating with anyhow???!!! A lying, cheating man, of course!!!!! If anyone is more of a liar and a cheater “by nature” … it’s a man!!! If you don’t believe it, just look at Tiger Woods, Jesse James, Mark Sanford, Eliot Spitzer, Matt Lauer, etc. All these men have perfectly nice wives and they threw their marriages and families away on skanks and tramps because they had highly inflated opinions about themselves and didn’t know how to keep their pants up and zipped!!!!!
It’s pretty obvious from the previous days’ strips that John knew she was going out with the people in her class, and he wasn’t WORRIED about her, it BUGGED him that she went out to have fun and left him at home.
It wasn’t that he didn’t trust her, it wasn’t that he thought she might get hurt or get into trouble (my mom’s “dead in a ditch somewhere” scenario), it was that she went out without him. Yep, he’s got a double standard. Yep, he’s being a bit controlling.
But I’d say in this case, he doesn’t need to be yelled at for being a pig, he needs someone to gently explain that he should just get the *&#% over himself already. I’m sure as soon as the words in the last panel were out of his mouth, he realized how childish he sounded.
(Does anyone know if it’s ever been explicitly stated whether the rebooted FBOFW is taking place in the 70s like the original, or is it set in the present day? John’s attitude might not have been so out of place 30 years ago, but now it does come across as whiny. And a 70s setting might explain why she didn’t call to check in - couldn’t find a pay phone, cell phone not an option.)
Interesting what a Rorschach test this story arc has been for readers’ attitudes towards relationships and the opposite sex. ;)
I love the fact that because we saw John ask Elly if she minded him going out ONCE that he always does it. That was a planned outing. I find it impossible to believe that he has never gone out with the boys on the spur of the moment.
My boyfriend an I check in frequently when we are apart. It’s not that we don’t trust each other, it’s that this is a big, sometimes mean world we live in, and stuff happens that no one can predict. It seems the news is constantly full of random shootings in schools and malls, so who can blame him for worrying when I’m away at school or shopping? I take the opposite tack–no news is good news! If something bad happened, I know I will be notified, so I don’t worry if I don’t hear from him.
If one member of a couple (man or woman) is going to be home late, they should let their partner know that. It is simple courtesy. No need to go into detail, but to have stayed out without even letting him know that she would be home late was as rude as it would be for him to do the same thing.
Agree with everything MrsLuke says today. And it’s because men need to know who their children are so they can support them, protect them and leave all their worldly belongings to them when they die. They do not want to expend valuable resources on someone else’s offspring. So – gotta control “their” women, and we all know women can’t be trusted – right?!
Thank you to those who acknowledged my post today. I appreciate that my writing was fairly considered.
I am trying to be nicer in my comments on this strip, because somehow, some people take what I strictly say about the Pattersons as if I’m talking about them. It isn’t what I ever suggested, and that was not the way I ever intended my comments to be taken.
I stuck up for John in a couple strips of this this arc too. I just think Elly won the day by handling it the way I wish she did more often, but as we know, she won’t . I don’t think he’s wrong to feel the way he feels.
I like men. They are my best friends. I am also a woman, who for good reason, won’t put up with guff. I cheer on women, but I also understand men in their trains of thought. I understand them, and I know I have to accept them the way they are. Not saying they are all the same, because they aren’t, just like there are good women, and there are the ones who make us all look bad, once we finally saw what others were talking about when they talked about “those women”. There just happen to be more of “those kinds of men” than “those kinds of women”. I’m saying that several primal basics exist in each (male) man, and some are more in control of themselves than others. One has to decide how much of any person they can happily handle, or not. That goes for men, or women. (The actual saying is something that would get my comment deleted.)
I don’t think either of them are wrong here. I just think Elly handled the situation correctly. A shock to those who think I never, ever credit her for anything, but I do. I bet she wasn’t home very late either, but I also take into consideration that they are in their late 20’s, or early 30’s (Howtheduck????) in 1980 and 81, which means they were born somewhere around the 50’s, and that they are only acting in the way that was typical of people raised in that era. If you look at today, there are plenty of women and men still being treated (I’ll narrow all the adjectives down to) questionably, but we have really come a long way.
I won’t say more, because it extends beyond the scope of the strip, and I really do try to stick to just what pertains to the strip.
I find this thread a very interesting discussion. Throughout the entire arc I perceived John as more worried than controlling. It would have been courteous of Elly to call him to let him know she would be late. His comment about knowing where she is struck me as protective, not controlling. I have a husband who prefers that I let him know where I am as a courtesy(because he worries), but does not control where I go, so that is how I perceived John’s actions.
As for why there is so much conflict and not as much loving shown in the strip, that is for drama. If John and Elly were always well behaved and loving toward each other, besides being unrealistic, the strip would be boring.
ejcapulet over 14 years ago
Oh boy, was that a stupid thing to say! I hope he has a thoughtful, heartfelt reason (like “I was worried”).
sarge112751 over 14 years ago
you have the right to REMAIN SILENT and I suggest you USE it … NOW!
Any time a man gets the LAST word in an argument, he can rest assured, it’ll actually be the FIRST word in the NEXT argument!
CarolinaGirl over 14 years ago
Stupid AND typical
Dkram over 14 years ago
I think I just heard that a little while ago. (ha ha)
\\//_
Artrina over 14 years ago
He had better learn to keep his mouth shut - and soon! He seems to be chomping on it in a BIG way every couple of months. I hope Ellie puts her foot down the next time HE wants to go out with the boys for an evening!
stuart over 14 years ago
I took it as a joke. Of course, people often don’t react well to my jokes either.
diodonofrio over 14 years ago
I think she’s about to smash that $2000 stereo he just bought. And maybe stick her manual can opener up his…..nose!
ocean17 over 14 years ago
Elly to self in frame 4: “Yes, yes, you DID marry this dweeb.”
John to self: “Ha, got her that time. All this and a dentist too! I’m the bomb!”
DolphinGirl78 over 14 years ago
How little trust he has…
lewisbower over 14 years ago
Panel 3 “I’m glad you girls had a good time. Hope you can do it again soon.” Hope you’re a good poker player.
Mythreesons over 14 years ago
Add “It’s just that I miss you so much when you aren’t here with me.” That should open the doghouse door.
alan.gurka over 14 years ago
Ah, but does he really?
gaebie over 14 years ago
What’s wrong about his comment? Makes sense to me.
Sugie63 over 14 years ago
HAH! He’s a man so he’a a control freak.
mrslukeskywalker over 14 years ago
Yup, I called it!
I’m glad Elly finally stuck up for herself instead of throwing the usual fit.
Psychobabble it all you want to, this is the way men think. It’s the way they always were, and the way they still are, even though these days, some of them may less inclined to admit it. It’s the primal nature of the beast. I don’t care what anyone says to the contrary (which is coming, since it always does.), That’s the truth. There are shelves full of books in the stores, because as simple as men really are to understand, women don’t want to see it, so they say it isn’t so, and live with the consequences of doing so, then end up on talk shows complaining about it.
He knew where she was, he told Michael. He just didn’t like it, because he wasn’t in control of her. This is a man who gives his wife work appliances as gifts. She is effectively chattel in the back of his man mind. We’ve seen it consistently. Repeat chorus #2.
Elly wins today, and she did it without screaming. Bravo, until tomorrow.
~Note~ I am not bashing men. They can’t help the way nature wired them.
puddleglum1066 over 14 years ago
I have noted a kind of gender-based double standard on the issue of “reporting in.” Women (and in my experience this begins with the mother and continues with the wife) expect to be told where the man is and when he plans to be home, and there will be consequences if the man fails to file his flight plan. On the other hand, while they don’t do it as often, women seem to expect that they can disappear for the evening without phoning home, and face no consequences come morning.
I suspect this has to do with stereotyping: when the man is “off leash,” there seems to be the assumption he is up to no good; e.g., drinking himself blind and/or cheating on his spouse. Meanwhile, the stereotypical woman, should she disappear for the evening, is probably at a sewing circle or a church meeting; definitely not doing anything dangerous or unsavory (oh yeah? and just who are all those men cheating with, anyway?).
Judging by the number of commenters taking Elly’s side in this dispute, I suspect FBoFW’s online readership is overwhelmingly female…
(Let the bashing begin…)
RadioTom over 14 years ago
I vote for worried sick spouse/parent. John’s fatherhood is coming out… And yes, I know Elly’s his WIFE, not his daughter; but from a loving male’s perspective, the two are very similar.
BTDT, in fact. I never knew which one I worried about more - wife or daughter. Even today, with wife an Ex, and Daughter clear across the country… and Daughter 32 yo at that… I still worry.
JanLC over 14 years ago
Mrs Luke: Well said.
Radio Tom: I know when I stay away longer than I anticipated, I try to let my husband know I’m OK. I’m not checking in (so the feminists can relax), I’m just trying to ease the mind of the man I love. He does have a tendency to worry.
Wildmustang1262 over 14 years ago
Oh John! You better keep your mouth shaddup and make a silent for a while. Let Elly have good time for once in her lifetime! Apparently, John is a worrywart!
LOLs! I love the way Elly showed her “facial expression” while John spilled out of his mouth about knowing where she is.
poohbear8192 over 14 years ago
From the outside looking in, I think John’s an idiot.
From inside me, I would probably feel the same way and say the same unfortunate thing.
The learning curve is often ahead of good sense.
Good luck John. You are going to need it!
wndrwrthg over 14 years ago
John has every right to be concerned that she went bar hopping without letting him know. The only reason she did not, was that she was up to no good. Women can’t help that they lie and cheat, that’s how nature wired them.
lightenup Premium Member over 14 years ago
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
@wndrwrthg – I’m guessing you’re single.
jeffreybradmc over 14 years ago
What is love, love is caring, love is trusting, love is concerning and love controling, but when done properly, it’s NOT overly demanding.
KatalinaDuBois over 14 years ago
Wow..gotta love how a strip can bring out the true thinking of some people. Bashing and such. And no..this is not aimed at any one person.
Ok… here’s my take. I come from an abusive background, so automatically, I saw John as being a control freak, and of course hypocritical.
However, there are two Sides to Every story, that being said, I have to take into account that Elly didn’t really tell John, at least..not that I know of. Well More to the point, she didn’t Ask him, like he asked her.
Never mind how she felt when he went….the point is He asked, She said Yes.
She could have asked, and the outcome would be different.
I digress….
So after looking at both sides. I think that John was really worried about her. Back then, women were seen as needing protection. And sometimes are still seen that way.
For all of her faults, John loves Elly, and like most of us who loves someone, we put the Worst scenario into our minds when we’re confronted with the unknown.
Now, when My boyfriend goes out, be it to his friend’s house, or to his mom, or even cross country to see his dad, Guess what? The worst case scenario goes through my mind. always. But in the end, I trust him, and i know he’s ok.
He goes through the same with me. :) So, my point after this TL;DR is that I believe John was really worried, and well lets face it…
Most [not all. i HATE blanket groupings] Most men do not know how, or are capable of sharing there feelings…for Most men it’s a Learned thing,
And most Women [again, not All] are wired to be fairly high strung and emotional. As such we tend to react stronger to things. And some better than others. [again..Most..not ALL]
Elly and John simply need to learn how to communicate better. And take each others quirks in stride.
Gah.
So sorry for the thesis here.
3139lip over 14 years ago
Many husbands would think the same thing but know better than to say it, because it would reveal how totally self-centered they are. What makes this cartoon funny is that John actually says what he, and others, are thinking and makes us realize what is going within people – maybe even ourselves.
RinaFarina over 14 years ago
I don’t see why people are taking offence at what John said. It was totally innocent - and exactly what he was thinking - and only after he said it, might he have considered how it sounded.
So he knew where she was when he went out? Well, he did! That’s just the relationship they had! So what?
Neither of them looks in great pain, or very angry - it looks like it’s just a quiet discussion. In fact, rather unlike strips when Ellie screams to high heaven over something. I found it a refreshing change. I remember thinking as I read it, “See? So they can sometimes relate as a normal, reasonable married couple!” Boy, did everybody else disagree with me!
LindainOregon over 14 years ago
3139lip… I think you nailed it!
Gretchen's Mom over 14 years ago
JanCinVV: I’m with you on that one. I don’t have to “check-in” with my husband regarding my precise-to-the-minute whereabouts because he knows he’s got nothing to worry about regarding my fidelity. But I let him know where I’m going and when I expect to be back so he won’t worry - and wonder! - where I am (and he does the same for me). It’s just common courtesy and a show of respect we have for each other because we’re both worriers. If something were to happen and one of us not only didn’t return home at the expected time but also didn’t call to say there was a change in plans, then the other would have a starting place to begin looking for them (especially if the police end up having to be called. That’s sad to say but that’s just the world we’re now living in these days).
As I said, it’s just common courtesy and a show of respect for the person you’re married to … especially if you know they’re a worrier.
Gretchen's Mom over 14 years ago
wndrwrthg: GMAB!!!!! I’m guessing you’re a man … and a single one at that!
Here’s a question for you: Just who is it exactly you think these lying, cheating women are lying and cheating with anyhow???!!! A lying, cheating man, of course!!!!! If anyone is more of a liar and a cheater “by nature” … it’s a man!!! If you don’t believe it, just look at Tiger Woods, Jesse James, Mark Sanford, Eliot Spitzer, Matt Lauer, etc. All these men have perfectly nice wives and they threw their marriages and families away on skanks and tramps because they had highly inflated opinions about themselves and didn’t know how to keep their pants up and zipped!!!!!
Clobbered by Science Premium Member over 14 years ago
It’s pretty obvious from the previous days’ strips that John knew she was going out with the people in her class, and he wasn’t WORRIED about her, it BUGGED him that she went out to have fun and left him at home.
It wasn’t that he didn’t trust her, it wasn’t that he thought she might get hurt or get into trouble (my mom’s “dead in a ditch somewhere” scenario), it was that she went out without him. Yep, he’s got a double standard. Yep, he’s being a bit controlling.
But I’d say in this case, he doesn’t need to be yelled at for being a pig, he needs someone to gently explain that he should just get the *&#% over himself already. I’m sure as soon as the words in the last panel were out of his mouth, he realized how childish he sounded.
(Does anyone know if it’s ever been explicitly stated whether the rebooted FBOFW is taking place in the 70s like the original, or is it set in the present day? John’s attitude might not have been so out of place 30 years ago, but now it does come across as whiny. And a 70s setting might explain why she didn’t call to check in - couldn’t find a pay phone, cell phone not an option.)
Interesting what a Rorschach test this story arc has been for readers’ attitudes towards relationships and the opposite sex. ;)
notinksanymore over 14 years ago
I love the fact that because we saw John ask Elly if she minded him going out ONCE that he always does it. That was a planned outing. I find it impossible to believe that he has never gone out with the boys on the spur of the moment.
My boyfriend an I check in frequently when we are apart. It’s not that we don’t trust each other, it’s that this is a big, sometimes mean world we live in, and stuff happens that no one can predict. It seems the news is constantly full of random shootings in schools and malls, so who can blame him for worrying when I’m away at school or shopping? I take the opposite tack–no news is good news! If something bad happened, I know I will be notified, so I don’t worry if I don’t hear from him.
1148559 over 14 years ago
Here’s my take…
If one member of a couple (man or woman) is going to be home late, they should let their partner know that. It is simple courtesy. No need to go into detail, but to have stayed out without even letting him know that she would be home late was as rude as it would be for him to do the same thing.
I read John’s statement as concern.
myming over 14 years ago
how true !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
double standard…
lindz.coop Premium Member over 14 years ago
Agree with everything MrsLuke says today. And it’s because men need to know who their children are so they can support them, protect them and leave all their worldly belongings to them when they die. They do not want to expend valuable resources on someone else’s offspring. So – gotta control “their” women, and we all know women can’t be trusted – right?!
lindz.coop Premium Member over 14 years ago
Did I miss something? I’m not sure it ever said that John didn’t know where she was?
ImaPlugger2 over 14 years ago
Sad, I never see any affection and caring between these two.
mrslukeskywalker over 14 years ago
Thank you to those who acknowledged my post today. I appreciate that my writing was fairly considered.
I am trying to be nicer in my comments on this strip, because somehow, some people take what I strictly say about the Pattersons as if I’m talking about them. It isn’t what I ever suggested, and that was not the way I ever intended my comments to be taken.
I stuck up for John in a couple strips of this this arc too. I just think Elly won the day by handling it the way I wish she did more often, but as we know, she won’t . I don’t think he’s wrong to feel the way he feels.
I like men. They are my best friends. I am also a woman, who for good reason, won’t put up with guff. I cheer on women, but I also understand men in their trains of thought. I understand them, and I know I have to accept them the way they are. Not saying they are all the same, because they aren’t, just like there are good women, and there are the ones who make us all look bad, once we finally saw what others were talking about when they talked about “those women”. There just happen to be more of “those kinds of men” than “those kinds of women”. I’m saying that several primal basics exist in each (male) man, and some are more in control of themselves than others. One has to decide how much of any person they can happily handle, or not. That goes for men, or women. (The actual saying is something that would get my comment deleted.)
I don’t think either of them are wrong here. I just think Elly handled the situation correctly. A shock to those who think I never, ever credit her for anything, but I do. I bet she wasn’t home very late either, but I also take into consideration that they are in their late 20’s, or early 30’s (Howtheduck????) in 1980 and 81, which means they were born somewhere around the 50’s, and that they are only acting in the way that was typical of people raised in that era. If you look at today, there are plenty of women and men still being treated (I’ll narrow all the adjectives down to) questionably, but we have really come a long way.
I won’t say more, because it extends beyond the scope of the strip, and I really do try to stick to just what pertains to the strip.
RedSteph over 14 years ago
I find this thread a very interesting discussion. Throughout the entire arc I perceived John as more worried than controlling. It would have been courteous of Elly to call him to let him know she would be late. His comment about knowing where she is struck me as protective, not controlling. I have a husband who prefers that I let him know where I am as a courtesy(because he worries), but does not control where I go, so that is how I perceived John’s actions.
As for why there is so much conflict and not as much loving shown in the strip, that is for drama. If John and Elly were always well behaved and loving toward each other, besides being unrealistic, the strip would be boring.