Try reading the facts before cartooning, Sir. This is the same law on the books, signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993, endorsed & used by Eric Holder’s DOJ, and has been sited & used many times in cases before various courts, including the Supreme Court. Verdicts have gone both ways. Why this uninformed media frenzy is happening is beyond me. Incredible. 19 other states have this law on the books.
Hey starcandles! Way to get it WRONG! The laws you referenced are between an individual and the government. And most of those states have provisions protecting LGBT people.
This law is individual to individual. Not the same thing.
You just keep on trying to spin this "hate’ law as ok though.
The difference is Indiana does not have a the non-discrimination law other states have. That allows the new law to possibly permit discrimination. The extensive protests across the country show a very large number of people think this is possible. A Christian does not have the right to discriminate. What about do unto others? I guess they can ignore that if somebody has a life style they don’t like.
@TedLind – You are making an argument from popularity i.e. Lots of People think it’s true so therefor it must be True.
Lots of people have been stirred up to think this is an evil bill. It remains to be seen whether or not it is. If it is used to deny service to minorities – I would agree that it is evil. If it is used to protect honest business owners from Frivolous lawsuits from litigious scheisters then it is a good bill.
The example that was used was the Kosher deli being sued by a group because they wouldn’t serve bacon. That kind of idiocy happens in the country all the time and its easier for the business owner to pay the blackmail rather then try to fight it in court.
@ODon – With respect to (B) Yes but the problem for business owners is that it is SO expensive to fight those frivilous lawsuits that it becomes easier to just pay the money to make them go away.
The lawyers take the case on a contingency basis and then make a percentage of whatever is taken from the business.
As for part A) I would argue that the best place to fix that particular issue is in the courts. Let the state and the plaintif(s) duke it out and leave the business owners out of this. The courts can determine whether a provision of the law stands up to constitutional scrutiny.
I haven’t read the law carefully but I have seen Minorities rise up in outrage over trivial matters far too often to even get concerned. More often then not they are making a mountain out of a molehill.
@ODon – Thank you Harley Quinn who beat me to the punch but I wondered the same thing – You seem to have access to knowledge of the intentions and desires of the Indiana Legislature that I don’t.
You don’t like the bill – I get that. But you don’t know what they were thinking.
The ‘toon is highly appropriate, and accurately on target at those who ignore the subject’s teachings. It is NOT just about LBGT folks. Refuse service to Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, or even members of an alternate branch of the over 100 Baptist divisions who don’t share YOUR interpretation of YOUR religion? Can you spot a Buddhist or Mormon, as easily as those obviously recognizable gays?
Nobody’s out to change your lifestye by requesting your paid public service or product. Get a life and if your faith in Jesus is so strong, stop being so frightened and paranoid, and well xenophobic and hate-filled. Remember, you too are soon to be a minority, if not already because of your extremism, no matter what side of the extremist issues you may support.
1 (I don’t believe I have to actually spell this out, but whatever): It is a cartoon drawing an analogy to a biblical story to illustrate a point: that had the story of Christ’s birth taken place in this time (2015), and place (Indiana, USA), under this law it would have been perfectly acceptable to turn Joseph and Mary away based on the religious beliefs of the innkeeper.2: You clearly don’t know anything about Nozi Germany and I am immediately deeply suspicious of anyone who rides that horse.3: Christians do not have the right to discriminate in the USA, so it is not being taken away. I have yet to hear anyone in the USA claiming to have their Christian rights taken away actually point out an example. No one is taking away your right to pray, shop, worship, receive services, etc. You are only not allowed, by the constitution, to create laws that favor one religion over another. Not only that, but the whole concept of exclusion is antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
Just a note on “minorities rule” relevant to the toon, actually, as well as all the arguments about NOT letting minorities rule? There are over seven billion people in the world, around 320 million in the United States, and the total WORLD population of Jews is around 14-20 million, depending on whose figures used, yet our total “interest” in the Middle East supports a nation with seven million religious “advocates”, while just Iran has over 65 million population, and it’s Iran that we need to blow up if they even try to get a single nuclear weapon? (That they wouldn’t be crazy enough to try to use.)
It IS about preserving rights, and survival, of all people willing to try for peace and justice, not bigotry against, or BY those minorities. It also reflects on those “good Christians” in the U.S. pusing for these laws who FEAR they will have to accept the views and lifestyles of those “others”, when indeed they themselves ARE actually a very vocal minority.
The point being actually, no persecution has led to more deaths, strife, and terror in the history of the world, than religious “oriented” persecution. (You can just call it “moral certitude” if you like.)
starcandles Premium Member over 9 years ago
Try reading the facts before cartooning, Sir. This is the same law on the books, signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993, endorsed & used by Eric Holder’s DOJ, and has been sited & used many times in cases before various courts, including the Supreme Court. Verdicts have gone both ways. Why this uninformed media frenzy is happening is beyond me. Incredible. 19 other states have this law on the books.
Martok63 over 9 years ago
Hey starcandles! Way to get it WRONG! The laws you referenced are between an individual and the government. And most of those states have provisions protecting LGBT people.
This law is individual to individual. Not the same thing.
You just keep on trying to spin this "hate’ law as ok though.
Odon Premium Member over 9 years ago
Just curious, what rights have christians been robbed of?
Theodore E. Lind Premium Member over 9 years ago
The difference is Indiana does not have a the non-discrimination law other states have. That allows the new law to possibly permit discrimination. The extensive protests across the country show a very large number of people think this is possible. A Christian does not have the right to discriminate. What about do unto others? I guess they can ignore that if somebody has a life style they don’t like.
Mephistopheles over 9 years ago
@TedLind – You are making an argument from popularity i.e. Lots of People think it’s true so therefor it must be True.
Lots of people have been stirred up to think this is an evil bill. It remains to be seen whether or not it is. If it is used to deny service to minorities – I would agree that it is evil. If it is used to protect honest business owners from Frivolous lawsuits from litigious scheisters then it is a good bill.
The example that was used was the Kosher deli being sued by a group because they wouldn’t serve bacon. That kind of idiocy happens in the country all the time and its easier for the business owner to pay the blackmail rather then try to fight it in court.
Mephistopheles over 9 years ago
@ODon – With respect to (B) Yes but the problem for business owners is that it is SO expensive to fight those frivilous lawsuits that it becomes easier to just pay the money to make them go away.
The lawyers take the case on a contingency basis and then make a percentage of whatever is taken from the business.
As for part A) I would argue that the best place to fix that particular issue is in the courts. Let the state and the plaintif(s) duke it out and leave the business owners out of this. The courts can determine whether a provision of the law stands up to constitutional scrutiny.
I haven’t read the law carefully but I have seen Minorities rise up in outrage over trivial matters far too often to even get concerned. More often then not they are making a mountain out of a molehill.
Mephistopheles over 9 years ago
@ODon – Thank you Harley Quinn who beat me to the punch but I wondered the same thing – You seem to have access to knowledge of the intentions and desires of the Indiana Legislature that I don’t.
You don’t like the bill – I get that. But you don’t know what they were thinking.
Dtroutma over 9 years ago
The ‘toon is highly appropriate, and accurately on target at those who ignore the subject’s teachings. It is NOT just about LBGT folks. Refuse service to Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, or even members of an alternate branch of the over 100 Baptist divisions who don’t share YOUR interpretation of YOUR religion? Can you spot a Buddhist or Mormon, as easily as those obviously recognizable gays?
Nobody’s out to change your lifestye by requesting your paid public service or product. Get a life and if your faith in Jesus is so strong, stop being so frightened and paranoid, and well xenophobic and hate-filled. Remember, you too are soon to be a minority, if not already because of your extremism, no matter what side of the extremist issues you may support.
echoraven over 9 years ago
You forgot they were Jews.
Jason Allen over 9 years ago
“They were refused service. That’s why they ended up in a stable.”Right next door to that cute gay couple who were also denied service. Such a shame.
melangley Premium Member over 9 years ago
1 (I don’t believe I have to actually spell this out, but whatever): It is a cartoon drawing an analogy to a biblical story to illustrate a point: that had the story of Christ’s birth taken place in this time (2015), and place (Indiana, USA), under this law it would have been perfectly acceptable to turn Joseph and Mary away based on the religious beliefs of the innkeeper.2: You clearly don’t know anything about Nozi Germany and I am immediately deeply suspicious of anyone who rides that horse.3: Christians do not have the right to discriminate in the USA, so it is not being taken away. I have yet to hear anyone in the USA claiming to have their Christian rights taken away actually point out an example. No one is taking away your right to pray, shop, worship, receive services, etc. You are only not allowed, by the constitution, to create laws that favor one religion over another. Not only that, but the whole concept of exclusion is antithetical to the teachings of Christ.
Dtroutma over 9 years ago
Just a note on “minorities rule” relevant to the toon, actually, as well as all the arguments about NOT letting minorities rule? There are over seven billion people in the world, around 320 million in the United States, and the total WORLD population of Jews is around 14-20 million, depending on whose figures used, yet our total “interest” in the Middle East supports a nation with seven million religious “advocates”, while just Iran has over 65 million population, and it’s Iran that we need to blow up if they even try to get a single nuclear weapon? (That they wouldn’t be crazy enough to try to use.)
It IS about preserving rights, and survival, of all people willing to try for peace and justice, not bigotry against, or BY those minorities. It also reflects on those “good Christians” in the U.S. pusing for these laws who FEAR they will have to accept the views and lifestyles of those “others”, when indeed they themselves ARE actually a very vocal minority.
The point being actually, no persecution has led to more deaths, strife, and terror in the history of the world, than religious “oriented” persecution. (You can just call it “moral certitude” if you like.)
melangley Premium Member over 9 years ago
Here’s the picture, with some of the lobbyists identified. http://crooksandliars.com/2015/03/mike-pence-surrounded-bigots-when-he