Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for May 20, 2010

Ah, a match made in Heaven…. or somewhere?

This is bad. The catholic church replaced “Last Rites” with “Anointing of the sick” decades ago.

It was at least partly because giving someone last rites frightened the ** out of them, so they replaced it with a sacrament that could be used on the those who weren’t moribund.

That’s one heck of an ecumenical marriage.

Maybe he’s the exception to the “there are no atheists in foxholes” rule that was cited recently. It nice to know that his dad is a practicing polygamist. He may owe his recovery to his mother’s religion and Vishnu, the preserver and protector of creation.

Ummm, GT, did you actually do background research on this topic?

I don’t know enough about practices among military chaplains to know if anyone would make that claim. I do know that there are practical limitations that preclude having chaplains of every denomination instantly accessible in every corner of the war zone. I don’t have any problem believing chaplains of different denominations help each other out where appropriate.

That being said…

This portrayal is way off in the deep rough with respect to the actual practice/doctrine/discipline of the Roman Catholic Church.

The Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick may only be given by a priest (or bishop). That’s it. A Catholic Deacon cannot give the Sacrament of Anointing or absolution in the Sacrament of Reconciliation - that’s why they can’t serve as military chaplains. To imply that the sacrament may be conferred by clergy of some other denomination, as if they’ve been granted proxy, is to distort the teaching of an entire Faith.

“Carry Rites to assist Catholic casualties”? She’s bringing them a nice gesture and good wishes, and maybe some oil - but in no way is she bringing them a sacrament.

“Carry Rites to assist Catholic casualties”? She’s bringing them a nice gesture and good wishes, and maybe some oil - but in no way is she bringing them a sacrament.

If there was a christian-type god, do you think he would care even slightly whether a person had had the right rites or not?

rmbdot: – you think GT should do “research” on his Comic Strip topics?

It has been DECADES of good, wry, cynical looks at the foibles of The American Way and the gross product of its Educational System.

Don’t screw with success!

As a conservative I enjoy this script with its biting humor against some of our idiocies. I also have enjoyed reading the experiences of Toggle, the Chaplain, and Melissa.

I don’t agree, however, with using inaccuracies to produce a laugh. The best humor comes from truth. I’m sure the inaccuracy wasn’t intentional, but I feel the need to offer clarification.

My concern is with the 5/20 strip in which “Mormons” are portrayed as polygamous, or having multiple wives. The Mormon church (the official name is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or LDS church) abandoned the practice in 1890. It is true that some splinter groups from the original Mormon church have continued to practice polygamy. They are in the minority, as the Mormon church’s 13 million members do not practice polygamy. If a member of the Mormon church is practicing polygamy, he/she is removed from the membership of the Church.

For more information I would encourage the author and fellow readers to visit www.mormon.org, or www.lds.org.

Thanks and God bless!

Sure god cares who gives the various sacraments, he hates unlicensed knock-offs like the head of every other fine world organization.

Boy, and those Mormons giving up polygamy, soon they’ll be giving mass in Latin or something.

Let’s please remember that other churches beside the Roman Catholic Church have the sacraments. This chaplain is obviously NOT Roman Catholic, so she would not be offering RC sacraments. On the other hand, I don’t think God cares who’s reaching out a loving hand.

Besides, in the US, there are more denominations than Carter has pills. If you name – or make up – a religious practice, odds are there’s some Christian denomination (let alone other religion) that practices it.

Polygamy????

Wife A—-Get up you lazy bum! Wife B—-Take out the trash! Wife C —-Go to work Wife D—-We never spend any time alone Wife A—-If you loved me—– Wife B—-Have you been seeing other women? Wife C—-Does this dress make me look fat Wife D—-How come the Jones have a new car?

Every day, over and over. Oh boy! Four mother-in-laws.

Someday we will ALL know if there is a God or not.

Hopefully, we will have made the right choice…

:O)

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. Best explanation of religion. Those gods are real only to those whom believe in them.

How does “Not exactly sure, ma’am” make this an exception to the “No athiests in foxholes” rule?

Agnosticicm isn’t athiesm. This fellow might even be a Diest.

I made more reserved comments in the early part of the week because it was not clear what denomination the chaplain or the patient represented. It was entirely possible that GT was accurately portraying (through his characters) a tradition and mindset about “last rites” authentic to that denomination.

I’m being more critical today because with today’s strip, he moved beyond that. He’s portraying a (fictional) chaplain (of some unspecified denomination) as claiming they can confer this sacrament to a Catholic. Not true!

STUK1 is right, too. What’s served by trotting out the tired old Mormon=polygamist stereotype?

Sound like a candidate for Unitarian-Universalism

Like God really cares WHO does the incantation? I mean, do you really think that if you lead a good life, you get turned away for having the wrong guy there at the end? WHO told you that? Was it God? Or some human? How do YOU say ‘indoctrination’?

I guess it depends on which myth he was indoctrinated into believing. While characterizing all Mormons as polygamists is inappropriate (it’s just the ultra-orthodox ones), both myths are quite clear on a woman’s role in life.

It’s a comic strip.

Mormonism the cult that is above being called a cult. Religiion and “christianity” the poison in America’s well.

“Your gods are dead,your rituals meaningless”

@rmbdot: “What’s served by trotting out the tired old Mormon=polygamist stereotype?”

Umm….the punchline?

Hey, it could be worse. He could have made a reference to teenage rape in the guise of “arranged marriage.” Wouldn’t THAT be a hoot?

i think it’s safe to say that the soldier was making a joke. if his father was a practicing mormon (particularly if he was actually part of a splinter sect that still practiced polygamy) he wouldn’t have married a woman of another faith especially a catholic. and he wouldn’t have stood for her converting to hinduism.

“Hey!”, he said, changing the subject slightly -

When was the last time we saw Sal’s college roommate and Gulf War I “morale officer” Tripp Tripler?

For that matter, when was the last time we saw Sal?

You die, they put you in a hole, and in a few generations you will be forgotten by everyone except for the cemetery groundskeeper who mows the grass around your headstone.

@Joe, I agree about the UU possibility.

This is a mash up made in some heaven or other.

@thepeoplesmushroom Thank you for that perspicacious and salient comment.

It’s better to keep your mouth shut and let other people think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

“Religiion and “christianity” the poison in America’s well.”

The people who put the United States together might well disagree with that.

“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

The important thing is to believe and live by the example given by Christ, if you are a Christian.

Too many things are “according to Religion” which are made up by man.

“It’s a comic strip”.

Most forums (not this one) and many newspapers describe this strip as an “editorial cartoon”. It’s not Blondie. As an editorial, it is a worthy fulcrum for debating the issues and POV that Garry brings forth.

fbjsr, you nailed it exactly. Trudeau has become exactly what he used to satire. Every time that he ridicules a religious or demographic group, he demonstrates his prejudices. He certainly has a right to, but his outlook used to be much more holistic, in that he could lampoon nutty behaviors from all sides, including his own. Today, he just spends his efforts calling those he doesn’t agree with nuts. It’s disappointing.

rmbdot… another excellent reason for Roman Catholics to move to the Episcopal church.

Since all religions and religious writings, e.g. the bible, koran, torah, et al, are solely human creations borne from ancient myths and are constantly being changed by other humans to fit the current zeitgeist, what difference does a chaplain’s own religion really make in her attempt to comfort suffering believers. If religious people were less concerned w/ believing that only “theirs” is the true religion the world would be a better place.

The world of chaplains is a strange place. A member of my synagogue recently told me about being called on to officiate an emergency Catholic baptism.

I think of my 97 year old mother’s continuous switching of religions, always being a devout “Christian”– switching for the yoga made perfect sense. As to requiring the proper fakir, to say the right thing to get you into good graces, it is Islam (Mohammed) that says it doesn’t matter as long as you believe in the god of Abraham at the end.

Actually the Church recognizes the “validity” of anyone giving last rites when a priest is not available. I don’t interpret this cartoon to ridicule any religion, though I see the small poke at multiple wives. The chaplain is there administering aid. The kid is from a non-traditional religious background, and not the strangest I’ve seen, but they’re communicating and accepting one another. To me the humor is some mainstream denominations don’t accept others. As for Joe-Allen “Joe” Doty’s contention that one cannot believe in Jesus Christ without accepting Him as your savior, you might want to reconsider; the Devil believes, but is not saved.

rduh, ummm, Jesus Christ was a real person. Now whether you believe he was the son of God or simply the son of a man is your choice, but to equate him and his teachings with an absurdist invisible spaghetti monster is really kind of absurd in its own rite.

MisngNOLA, I take it that you’re a Pastafarian?

Religious debate is always interesting, especially when people take turns trying to prove or disprove the unknowable. IMNSHO, the only honest answer to the question of God (by any other name) is “I don’t know”. Anything else is elitist mastabatory rationalization.

Our lazy minds love easy linear solutions, but the nature of God and the universe is likely to be much more nonlinear and complex. However, if one can admit that they don’t know something, then anything is possible. Having a moral code based upon what one WANTS God to be not only is logical (the odds of God being your God are just as good as anyone else’s) but is socially useful as well.

Jefferson, Washington, and the rest of the gang need not have been religious evangelists to understand that religious morality has a valuable function in a free society. It’s what drives people to elect leaders that reflect these sorts of values, and to create laws that exist within the framework of legal AND moral justice.

Oh, not another person saying that Mormons are polygamists! How long has it been since they banned that? I can’t believe this strip would say such a thing – it’s usually so intelligent. This is horribly uncaring. My best friend is Mormon, and I’ve spent time with her church, so I know they would never accept polygamy. I’m disappointed in you, Gary Trudeau.

Whether or not Trudeau got all the denominational idiosycracies correct, he still made a funny statement about the absurdity of doctrinal differences and their practices.

You people have too much time on your hands…

“Last Rites” are not the same as “Anointing of the Sick.”

Anointing of the Sick may be one of the sacraments administered when one is given the last rights. The other sacraments would be reconciliation and communion.

Wow, a lot of people are using their word of the day calenders today. I had to look up three words already.

I’m not a Catholic, but my BF’s family is, and I’ve gone to Mass with them a couple of times. I ask a lot of questions, one of which involved what would happen if someone was dying and no priest was available to give last rites. The priest assured me that anyone can give last rites in a time of need. A priest is certainly preferred, but the Catholics I know don’t believe that God refuses to accept a person’s last confession if they have the gall to die away from access to a priest. If they did, I wouldn’t be comfortable with the church!

My opinion of last rites was shaped by a convergence of Protestantism and MAS*H - not a Jesus- or Apostles-prescribed rite, but still a gesture of affection that has value as a morale boost for the dying and all those around.

Man created god in his own image. Your mythology does not alter reality.

GT continues his religious mash-up and all his readers rush to join in; so far, 56 comments and we’re only to mid-day. In case you’re looking for half-time diversion, continue reading; but you might prefer to wait for next week’s strip, when the G.I. will presumably have died or be going home.

Nemesys and fbsjr think GT enjoys stereotyping sectarians, while some posters assume he’s an atheist or a cynical agnostic. But the most telling criticisms note GT’s ignorance of Catholic doctrine reflected in today’s strip.

Like most of his non-Catholic readers, GT confuses a sacrament with rites. Not content with reducing the Seven Sacraments to two–baptism and the eucharist (Communion)–Protestantism went on to discard, as mere superstition, three more of them–Ordination, Penance (Confession), and Extreme Unction (confessing and annointing the dying). Then it watered down the other two (Confirmation and Marriage) to merely optional ceremonies.

Jesus observed all the Jewish rites such as baptism, Passover, etc. But according to the traditional, pre-Reformation teaching of the Church, not every Jewish rite was adopted by Jesus as a sacrament.

A sacrament–defined as divine grace conferred through a material sign–is authentic, then, if and only if Jesus instituted it himself. At any rate, we can use the biblical narrative (the four Gospels plus Acts) to bring some order to GT’s whimsical mash-up. We know Jesus took part in his own baptism, confirmation, communion, and penance (his Crucifixion on our behalf); and we know he attended a marriage and ordained the first priest (Peter).

But what about extreme unction–not for himself, since Jesus didn’t have sins to confess, and none of his followers anticipated his death–but maybe for Lazarus? (See also Mark 6:13, where “the twelve,” at Jesus’s bidding, went out and “annointed many sick people with oil and healed them.”)

Time for the second half to start.

Nice going. That may be the most hateful, uninformed statement you’ve made all week, Joe.

“When mathematicians, speaking about infinite sets, use the expression, ‘all but a finite number of members’, they are saying that the infinite ‘all’ is still the same size ‘all’ even if we take away some finite set.

The removal of billions of members from an infinite set in no way diminishes its infinity.

Such an insight helps to solve familiar problems in, say, the theology of Providence. For God as infinite can extend his care simultaneously to billions of details, since ‘billions’ after all are only finite.”

Your mathematical paradox is attractive, corzak, but it’s not of much use to a God who is supposed to have sent his finite Son to rescue the finite portion of humanity who believe in Christ.

I’m not sure how GT fits Providence into his satirical vision. My own, insignificant view is that God is trying to cope with this absurd world and that s/he needs all of our help.

I am an Army Chaplain - and a Mormon (or LDS) one at that. Let me clear up a few of Mr. Trudeau’s misconceptions:

Neither I nor any other non-Catholic chaplains conduct “last rites” or the Sacrament of the Sick for any Catholic. That’s not our lane - we leave that for Catholic chaplains/priests. A general Christian or nondenominational prayer could be said by the chaplain to ask the Lord’s blessing on the Soldier, but that’s about it.

Mormons have NOT practiced plural marriage or polygamy since 1890. Doonesbury is perpetuating a century-old stereotype here for a laugh. He either didn’t do his homework or doesn’t care about telling the truth. BTW, the splinter groups (e.g., FLDS) that practice polygamy do not call themselves “Mormons”.

I do thank the cartoonist for giving a week of his strip to an often unsung group of heroes - chaplains of the US Armed Forces.

CH (MAJ) Chris Degn San Antonio, TX

JAD: there was a time not long ago when the Latter Day Saints would not allow a Black person to become a Mormon priest. There was no place in Latter Day Saints heaven for Black people either.

This was written in the letter given to Joseph Smith by the white salamander.

I love the, er, ‘discussions’ this has engendered. Alot of you claim “the Christian God is real”…okay. Granted.

but so is Vishnu, Allah, Ra, and a very long list of others. Pick a name - any name. Everybody has a Favorite they are betting on. Just be prepared to say “Oooops” when the final payment on the Farm is due.

GT just point out the myriad variations without calling any of them crazy, extreme, or impossible. He leaves that for his readers to do and be assured he is currently wearing a very large GRIN!

Grimma – or who gave them!

Nemesys – I think he still lampoons everyone – from those elitist college profs to trailer trash, from the military to dopers, religious, lgbt, students, journalists, parents, kids, angry white males, feminists, politicians, sheiks, NRA – everybody sees themself in the comic eventually. Some of us are just better able to laugh at ourselves than others that’s all.