@Joe, the Catholic Church does not “make” saints; they only canonize them–that is, enroll them in the list of saints that we are assured are in heaven, are held up as models and guides to Christ. There are uncounted multitudes of other saints, we hope. And all of them come to heaven only through Christ in the end.
Ah, but I do use “In the name of Jesus” or “through Christ our Lord”, but not “in the name of Christ.”
Also, the Bible, along with the Holy Spirit, is the guide to all truth–not the repository of all truth.
The Church itself is promised that guide, particularly (several times) in John 14-16. And, John also says that Jesus did and said other things, that not the world itself would be enough to contain the whole record (Jn 21:25). The Church acts, with deliberation and invoking the Holy Spirit, trusting that God will guide us, in developing and unfolding what is contained in the Bible and in the memory of the Church.
Other mediators? What of Paul, who taught Timothy (1 Tim 3:2)? Paul himself was instrumental in changing a ritual, from the “agape” supper to the “Lord’s Supper” as in 1 Cor 10. What authority did he have, not being either Jesus nor the Holy Spirit?
The saints are useful if they bring us to Jesus. If they do not help you find Him, leave them alone. But do not deny others the help they may need.
@Joe, I don’t dispute many things you say, such as being in the Church even when alone. Nor do the saints take souls to heaven. They serve as guides and models and companions on the way–that’s part of what “The communion of saints” means: that those still on earth, as well as those in heaven, are all members of the One Church. But, the saints don’t give the grace and justification to get us into heaven–that comes only through Jesus.
However, if you believe only what the Bible says, how do you know what constitutes the Bible? There is no list within the texts that tells us what should be included, and what left out.
Further, if you limit yourself to the Bible, do you have any creeds, or even use words such as “Trinity”? Neither is part of the Bible.
Paul’s authority was from the Spirit, and Paul certainly said many things not spoken by Jesus. We believe that that same Spirit was promised to the Church by Jesus himself, and continues to guide us to preserve us as a church from major error. Given that, the rest of our faith follows.
COWBOY7 over 14 years ago
Really? Tell us more Ruthie.
GROG Premium Member over 14 years ago
Which text book did you get that out of, Ruthie?
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!
celeconecca over 14 years ago
Oh, Ruthie.
alondra over 14 years ago
Kids always get their stories mixed up.
ChazNCenTex over 14 years ago
More likely Bethlehem, PA.
DagNabIt! over 14 years ago
It would probably be more correct to say Nazareth, PA (or KY)
ninmas over 14 years ago
merry christmas eve!!!
kab2rb over 14 years ago
Kids like adults will put a spin on stories. Merry Christ mas to all. Here in S.C. Kansas we are getting sleet and snow.
DryFly36 over 14 years ago
Back to church, Ruthie….
RI Red Hen over 14 years ago
Love - Peace - Joy!!
Merry Christmas!
bmonk over 14 years ago
@Joe, the Catholic Church does not “make” saints; they only canonize them–that is, enroll them in the list of saints that we are assured are in heaven, are held up as models and guides to Christ. There are uncounted multitudes of other saints, we hope. And all of them come to heaven only through Christ in the end.
bmonk over 14 years ago
Ah, but I do use “In the name of Jesus” or “through Christ our Lord”, but not “in the name of Christ.”
Also, the Bible, along with the Holy Spirit, is the guide to all truth–not the repository of all truth.
The Church itself is promised that guide, particularly (several times) in John 14-16. And, John also says that Jesus did and said other things, that not the world itself would be enough to contain the whole record (Jn 21:25). The Church acts, with deliberation and invoking the Holy Spirit, trusting that God will guide us, in developing and unfolding what is contained in the Bible and in the memory of the Church.
Other mediators? What of Paul, who taught Timothy (1 Tim 3:2)? Paul himself was instrumental in changing a ritual, from the “agape” supper to the “Lord’s Supper” as in 1 Cor 10. What authority did he have, not being either Jesus nor the Holy Spirit?
The saints are useful if they bring us to Jesus. If they do not help you find Him, leave them alone. But do not deny others the help they may need.
Deborah16 over 14 years ago
Merry Christmas everyone!! :)
fbmce over 14 years ago
Perhaps Joe-Allen “Joe” Doty can verify this for us.
I understand that a few years ago the Roman Catholic Church finally authorized one method of birth control (other’n abstinence).
That method is:
One Saint Joseph Aspirin held firmly between the knees.
I understand that it works pretty well too.
bmonk over 14 years ago
@Joe, I don’t dispute many things you say, such as being in the Church even when alone. Nor do the saints take souls to heaven. They serve as guides and models and companions on the way–that’s part of what “The communion of saints” means: that those still on earth, as well as those in heaven, are all members of the One Church. But, the saints don’t give the grace and justification to get us into heaven–that comes only through Jesus.
However, if you believe only what the Bible says, how do you know what constitutes the Bible? There is no list within the texts that tells us what should be included, and what left out.
Further, if you limit yourself to the Bible, do you have any creeds, or even use words such as “Trinity”? Neither is part of the Bible.
Paul’s authority was from the Spirit, and Paul certainly said many things not spoken by Jesus. We believe that that same Spirit was promised to the Church by Jesus himself, and continues to guide us to preserve us as a church from major error. Given that, the rest of our faith follows.