Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for December 22, 2011

I don’t believe the professor learned anything from Vietnam; he ended up fighting in Iraq.

The students’ grades will probably be influenced by how closely they reflect the Professor’s views. BD may have problems.

The Professor is being ironic, he knows lessons from Vietnam were ignored in Iraq, but he was in the Military and had to obey orders and cannot now openly expose himself. His unspoken message to the class is to think for themselves.

WE CREATE OUR OWN REALITY In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn’t like about Bush’s former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House’s displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn’t fully comprehend — but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency. ¶ The aide said . . . ’’We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.’’ —RON SUSKIND, “Faith Certanty and the Presidency of George W. Bush, New York Times Magazine, 2004 Oct. 17. Read more at: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html

One has to wonder sometimes how much better off financially the world would have been in America had stayed out of Vietnam and Iraq. but then again, I was once told that wars stimulate economies…although borrowing money to stimulate an economy is not necessarily a wise thing to do.Certainly there would have been far less loss of life and the world would not have had to deal with the residues of wars – the homelessness and trauma associated by soldiers and civilians alike.

…and for gawd’s sake, next time there is a dictator that threatens us, uses weapons of mass destruction on his own people, rewards suicide bombers in Israel by paying money to their families, sends money to terrorist groups like Hezbollah, and promotes war and terror in the world, let’s just leave him alone. After all, there is nothing worse than war, including terror, slavery, rape, and tyranny.

 Information: KARL ROVE “WIDELY KNOWN TO BE” AUTHOR OF “WE CREATE OUR OWN REALITY” QUOTE Evidence:  Danner, Mark (2007), “Words in a Time of War: On Rhetoric, Truth and Power”, in Szántó, András, What Orwell Didn’t Know: Propaganda and the New Face of American Politics (First ed.), PublicAffairs, p. 17, ISBN 978-1586485603, “… the unnamed official speaking to Suskind is widely known to be none other than the self-same architect of the aircraft-carrier moment, Karl Rove …” Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality-based_community

Let’s not equate the professor’s words with Trudeau’s beliefs, like at least two posters did yesterday. The artist is way too subtle for such shallow interpretation. Look to connect the dots and solve the puzzle he’s set out for us. (You wouldn’t equate Duke’s words with Trudeau’s beliefs, would you? You would? Then I see darkness closing down. “Rage, rage against the dying of the light.” —The REAL Dylan Thomas)

Don’t forget that So Damn Insane was CONTAINED by an international coalition that included TWO no-fly zones to protect dissidents. If I were President I would have added — after having gotten U.S. Congressional and international approval — a no-tank zone that covered the entire country. Then I would have encouraged DISSIDENTS LIVING INSIDE THE COUNTRY to do their own war-wagin against their own tyrant. Like what happened in Libya. There is nobody blaming us for Libya, now, is there However, we ARE being blamed for our ill-advised, boots-on-the-ground, illegal, “shock ‘n’ awe” invasion of Iraq with the unintended consequence of IRAN’s influence beginning to dominate leading, quite likely into another reactive, debt-financed invasion of IRAN. If he wins another term, Obama will invade Iran just before he leaves office during his eighth year in power. After we’re exhausted enough, mentally, morally, militarily, financially, and economically, THEN WILL MOVE IN CHINA AND RUSSIA, AND MAYBE OUR FICKLE LOVER INDIA (thinking to take over Pakistan and Pakistan’s nukes) . . . .

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. As long as there are politicians with aspirations of power there will always be a need for some sort of war machinery.

What’s there to stop it? A nuclear Iran?Asymmetric warfare? The SCO? (Yeah, go ahead and look it up if ya dare. In fact, I double-dare ya.)

Left Iraq that’s more troops for use in Iran. when will they ever ever learn?

I don’t actually think they will go into Iran unless they really have to. Iran won’t quite be the pushover that Iraq was (or indeed Afghanistan for that matter). They have better technologies, a better equipped defence force and some idea of the strengths and weaknesses of the US that Iraq never had. It would prove to be even more costly and harder to win than Iraq.

“You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders – The most famous of which is “never get involved in a land war in Asia” – but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line”! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha… "—Vizzini in The Princess Bride

@mikefive.Discussing the past is hardly ranting, but it is important and DOES affect the future. By the way, what wasted all those young lives was sending them into a foolish war in the first place.

Hookers are named after a US General’s camp-followers.But that was the Civil War.

Saw a good show on TV but can’t remember the channel, probably History, on why we lost in Viet Nam called The Art of War which showed the difference between Westmoreland and General Giap.

Please people. As a general rule. Spare us the extended and inane song lyrics.Post a link if you think it adds to the discussion . . . but as far as I can tell, they never do.

I saw that in 2002, I NEVER forget that quote – surreal. Thanks, Garry.

And Ray’s just auditing.

The “leaders” that brought US into the war in Iraq for the most part avoided Vietnam entirely. The lesson to my generation is to try to keep those kind of people out of power because they muck it all up.

@Heidi, had you ever experienced war on a personal level, I doubt you would feel as you do.

" Hey, D.T.Pi, what’s that date for the “rapture” again?" 4 BC.

" Any person worth their salt works to know all sides in an argument and can argue from any angle." Seems superhuman to me.

“Better to strive for freedom from religion.” Isn’t that what the USSR provided?

We didn’t learn from the War of 1812, The Civil War, The Indian Wars, The Spanish-American War, World War I, The Boxer Rebellion, World War II, The Korean War, The Police Action in Vietnam (If the French Foreign War couldn’t take care of the situation, what did we think we’d do?) The Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan (and all the little skirmishes I didn’t list)?? Except that the USA cannot survive without WAR!

Oops, meant “French Foreign Legion”

Since we do not learn from history—we keep repeating the error, It seems to be the fatal flaw in our matrix.

Lessons: Jericho, use a prostitute to betray her people, and expand your empire. George Washington lost all but one battle he commanded. Shilo to Appomatox, brother against brother on the killing fields. WW I, use a “prostitute”, Mata Hari to win your side, and please ignore the lesson of Gallipoli. Pearl Harbor, Manila, Dresden, Auschwitz, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Tet (comes every year), My Lai, Den Ben Phu, Hue, An Lao, the embassy in Saigon. Kuwait “It’s an Arab to Arab thing”, Baghdad, don’t support the Shia, only the Kurds.

Yes, we learn a lot, like the fact that war and prostitution go together, like tea and crumpets, bacon and eggs, ethics and religion, empire and profit, mud and blood.

China isn’t really Communist anymore. It is in fact moving to a Fascist Capitalist state with hardly a ripple.

The ten years after hosting an Olympics are fatal to one-party states – Berlin, Moscow and Sarajevo are testaments to this. So let’s hope Beijing manages a smooth regime change (for once in their history!)

“Sorkh Razil said, 29 minutes ago: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!! Wake me up when this story arc is over!” Cute!

One big difference: the Draft. The poor draftees that were schlepped off to Nam had no choice (other than running away to Canada), while today’s military are all volunteers. If nobody voluntarily joined, where would they get their warm bodies? Re-activate the draft? I would fight that whole-heartedly as discriminatory against women: draft men and women or don’t draft anyone. I think Congress wouldn’t have the guts to include women in the draft.

960 billion? there were 3 budgets for Iraq – the one ok’d by congress, the one that the Pentagon used and the hidden one, which one are you quoting?

It’s just a guess; I’ve heard the total, after all is said and done, will be $3 trillion. I don’t know if that includes the $8B in cash that was flown over on palettes and “lost”.

You already have that option.

“Godless communism my patootie!” Godless is as Godless does. In order to expand the definition of “God” to include “the worker state” of Marxism-Leninism as practiced in the USSR, you have to also include ALL economic idealisms, such as “free market” capitalism or Libertarianism. Thus, in order to be logical, you have to agree that Libertarianism is also a deity, or God if you will. Godless Libertarianism my patootie!

“Under the Radar” Mind explaining what you mean? As far as I can tell, you may be “under the radar” but still “over the rainbow” at the same time.

“An Explanation of a Thought” Mind actually explaining?

I just read all the comments since I posted early this morning.Poor Heidi Tentee ! She took a beating today. Hang in there Heidi!

Love Richard Thompson’s music!! And these lyrics are great too.

“A mind to create a thought are two equally as one” Mind = thought — at best a theory. You’ve succeeded at being obscurantist. Not everybody can do that. Congrats. But you’ve reached the limit of my interest.

The female student in panel 4 looks like she could be Arabic. She was also pictured in yesterday’s strip. Wonder if Trudeau has her in for a specific reason. Maybe we’ll find out. Stay tooned.