Non Sequitur by Wiley Miller for June 22, 2012

Joe has just asked one of those question I asked all my life and never got a straight answer – even from stockbrokers and lawyers. Imponderable truth ?

Ever get a casino to give you a bailout? It’s the size of the players and scale of the game.

Simple When you run out of money casino’s kick you out. The Stock market will let you extend credit and go in negative.

I hope their mother doesn’t find out they’re visiting another bar!Don’t they know she needs their business?

Instigator! Wiley just discussed that.

Why is gambling illegal, while drinking alcohol is? I don’t know, but in Vegas they do a lot of both.

It’s because they can’t easily tax your winnings when you gamble (unless you’re in a casino or play the lottery), but will tax the hell out of your capital gains in the market.

Remember: The government must get “their” cut through taxation — whenever money changes hands, either coming or going.

Now you know why the “Taxed Enough Already” (TEA) party has grown its membership. The wage-earners in America have had it with taxation.

A different kind of gambling!

WCLamb, Americans are wussies! They pay the lowest income taxes in the world. Pave your own roads?

If a person is short of cash, it’s not because of taxes, it’s because whatever they do for a living doesn’t pay enough. It’s not the government screwing us, it’s the corporations that run the country…

Hmm, if you take “gamble” as a verb meaning to play games, and speculation (speculatio) contemplation or observation, you can readily distinguish which is more fun. Yeah Friday!

Not only than but gamblers on the market pay on 15% taxes if they win but but gamblers (if they report their winnings) pay 2 or 3 times that rate.

Whoa guys, its a comic. Wiley pushed a button of wry amusement, and you fell for it.

Tax WEALTH, not WAGES!

I agree, and I have been in the stock market since 1961.

Jeff Kiser: In short, “where there is no income, there can be no income tax”.

The Populists (Omaha Platform of 1892) proposed abolishing commodity speculating since it produced no good, and robbed both the producer and consumer by taking money out of the exchange. Update a few things like equal rights for women (votes for women) and direct election of the president (senators) and the serfs of the 1% would still be squawking about it being too radical – after one and a fifth centuries.

BACK TO THE STRIP………Did anyone else notice the subtle double entendre in the first panel ? Wiley names the bar " The Prince of Whales ". In gambling parlance a ‘whale’ is a big player. Someone who bets large.In Wall Street parlance a Prince is a top investor and the term whale means the same as in Vegas.Really clever, Wiley!

Since Nixon (or Dabney Colman, whoever) can’t answer the question, I will try: Gambling involves the exchange of money without any exchange of real goods. A stock, however, represents an actual share in the ownership of a business. Trading stocks can thus be viewed as the buying and selling of legitimate goods. That’s the difference….but it still FEELS like gambling, and no one wants to hear about how much stock my penny jar can snap up!

BACK TO THE IDEA IN THE STRIP …There can be a big difference in the two types of gambling. When properly regulated, speculation in financial markets can help stabilize prices.

For example, when a predicted drought will cause a later shortage of wheat, speculators will drive the futures price up, and a farmer elsewhere from the drought will plant more wheat in response. See? The commodity futures market helps to regulate the whole food industry.

But, in recent decades, so-called conservatives have allowed the pure gambling and cheating side of financial markets to take over. And the US Right is so much better at propaganda than the sensible people that they have convinced many Americans that the inevitable disaster of their policies was due to too much government regulation!

How do I have this sent to my email?

Simple fact: all gaming commissions, even the "corrupt"ones, regulate casino gambling at a much higher level than the stock and commodity markets are now regulated, thanks to the folks who brought you the rigged wheel of “Reaganomics”.

There was much difference when it came to my great aunt gambling away all of her (and some other peoples) money on the stock market….

If your post is more than about 50 words, you’re not commenting – You are lecturing. I didn’t come here for a lecture.

In the meantime, my life savings are in the control of a bunch of scared little girls on wall st. bailing out and climbing on at the slightest twitch of change.A crappy sentence, but you get the idea.

Gambling is more honest and, in those places where it is legal, it is more tightly regulated than is financial speculation.

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@habogee: so move your life savings somewhere else. A bank account, for example.There’s no such thing as a perfectly secure investment. Higher returns (such as you’re likely to get, long-term, in the stock market) always involve higher risk.

Because there are people who take calculated risks with high probability setups. And because the companies need to issue stock to raise money and do business. We want our country to prosper, and businesses make that happen.

Gambling is simply betting that a freak of chance will happen in your favor, whereas in the stock market you are giving someone money to invest in a company on their promise that you will be repaid with interest if the company does well.

old saying, still true: don’t put anything in the stock market unless you can afford to lose it.

High stake speculators don’t use their own money, they use your’s, or a company’s pension fund. (which can be then same thing). Any Republican knows that, and they don’t care about what happens to you, if they lose your money. Gamblers at least get the pleasure of the gaming.

@treeredI have always maintained, never take money to a card game that you can’t afford to lose.

Just like Vegas, you play ’trill you lose it all, then consider yourself lucky to have had fun kissing your money goodbye.

For the most part, only at an IPO are you actually contributing to the development of a company. I asked a financial writer once to explain how investment differed from gambling. He explained that investors own a portion of a company. In my opinion, that means that unless you purchase a substantial enough portion of a company to contribute to or influence its operations (or provide financing, as at an IPO), you are still gambling.

Yeah but yeah but…nothing wrong with the GOVERNMENT getting a piece when money changes hands…at least they’re supposed to print and keep track of the stuff…AND we…supposedly…must be represented and have a say in setting the RATES…AND what it GOES for…that’s how GOOD government works. Yes, we gotta reset the gauges, but it’s legit.

Wall Street slices, shaves, skims, every time money changes hands…and YOU have no say in how big the piece is nor who gets it nor whether or not it’s spent on coke, girls, and speedboats…or?

Anybody see the difference? If YOUR employees are embezzling, you have a duty. If the crooks are thieving, you have a duty…AND my friends of the Tea Party with whom I don’t agree because you don’t know who YOU are working for…nevertheless WE THE PEOPLE have a duty…

@flake“…That’s what’s wrong with the stock market, is government meddling…” NOPE. When pension funds are at stake and economies falter, then the nation has to be protected from the Robber Barrons and wanna-bees.

@jan…“…For the most part, only at an IPO are you actually contributing to the development of a company…” ABSOLUTELY.That is where the Govt should be sheltering Investors. Not in the trading game which benefits economic liquidity (which is also good).

Consumers are the only job creators…

I favor a 20% Capital Gains tax on any financial instrument held for less than 24 months. AND, collect the tax at time of sale. AND, no sheltering by using Losses to offset Gains! AND, any borrowing used to buy the Stock/Commodity (margin) is taxed an additional 10%. This will Stabilize the Markets and put money back into banks to loan to economy boosters such as home builders and new business owners. The down side is that the Wall Street parasites will have to get a real job.

And thanks to Trusted Mechanic, Sharuniboy, and Jeff Kiser for their lucidity.

Churches are closing left and right . . . there’s not much tax money to be had there.

Churches are in fact taxed. They are taxed the same as any not-for-profit. And since they provide a lot of services to the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the imprisoned and disenfranchised, often on shoestring budgets, I’d say they qualify. Unless you want to do the same to all not-for-profits.

Wanna hear what’s coming? At some point soon, the UN will decide to go after religion and its money. Ireland – just last year – closed their Vatican Embassy because they felt the investment was not worth the return. Many countries are getting tired of religion. Vatican, LDS, and Mega-Churches DO have loads of money, and impose themselves on governments, and as the economy stagnates, governments will go after it. Watch all H-E-double-toothpicks break loose when that happens, because the average religious adherent will not take it quietly. But it must happen….

Thing is, commodity futures help to hedge, or protect AGAINST risk. .If a big food corp, like Kraft for instance, can secure a price for wheat to be delivered to them in 6 months, they know how much they’ll pay to get the raw materials they need to make thier crackers, so they can decide then how much they have to sell them for and how much they can spend on things like developing new product or advertizing to get new customers..The futures market is EXTREMELY important to those who sell their goods or services in the future, like airlines (gasoline). Or farmers who need to know how much and WHAT to plant/raise months before it’s grown..Gambling is entertainment. And anyone thinking otherwise will soon find out the house always wins in the end.

Wow, hit the nail right on the head there! And no matter which party, Citizens united hurts us all! It is a non-partisan issue. I hear both sides complaining that the other side got more money from donors. We need to get wall street speculators under control and get big money out of politics. Venture capitalist are supposed to help businesses NOT take advantage of them.

If religion wants to play politics, then charge ’em the admission fee like the rest of us.

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Has anyone stopped and actually read the comic? It’s about how gambling is illegal, but high-risk stock market speculation isn’t. And don’t go throwing academic and semantic definitions of how they’re different at me. In essence, they’re both about risking money on potential gain and that’s the point Joe seems to be trying to make.

Government regulation is the problem with the stock market? Well, good news! The whole Credit Default Swap market fiasco ($58 trillion in “value”) wasn’t even regulated. The tricks Wall Street used to turn garbage into AAA rated CDO tranches was so innovative, it was like turning a Ponzi scheme into a confidence game. Oh, wait… yeah, I see your point [not!]. The stock market can regulate itself without fear!

Ingsoc, good one!

Gambling isn’t illegal everywhere – I believe it is a state choice. Therefore, the correct answer here would be “go ask your state lawmakers”!

BECAUSE IN HIGH STAKES GAMBLING THE HOUSE ALMOST ALWAYS WINS IN THE END…IN STOCK MARKET INVESTING ONE HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE $ IF INVESTMENTS ARE HELD LONG TERM….