There is a G-d. I studied Biotechnology in college and in my opinion anyone who says things like our body can be created “accidentaly” or “by coincidence” is living in denial.
I think the whole biblical miracle bit is all spun just about like this. After all, if you’re the only literate guy around, writing it down, who’s going to fact check you?
The survivors write the history- Genesis.
Yes, DNA is too complex to exist in ALL cells
of ALL species on Earth
AND come from a hypothetical accident
that cannot be replicated
by our brightest scientists
since the dawn of time.
Do you remember when these pseudo-intellectual atheists USED TO DECLARE that photosynthesis was the only basis for life’s food chain.
SKP Tom.V, you still haven’t explained how a handful of men could spend a century building a boat big enough to house two of every species of animal, how some of them (Galapogos tortoise, Amazonian tree sloth), were able to get to where the ark was, or how Noah was able to sacrifice the male of every “clean” animal without causing mass extinctions!
Or even where all the water went! It had to be at least six miles deep to cover all the Earth, where did it recede to?
Just asking.
Clark Kent said, about 5 hours ago
The bible is a fairy tale. There is no god, devil, heaven or h≪ they’re all make believe like Santa Clause and the easter bunny.
I like Bill Cosby’s version better anyway, I forget what comedy album it’s on.
Actually, the Bible is myth, but our society has forgotten the values of myths and prefers false reality.
Santa Claus and the Easter Rabbit are better than religion,
‘cuz they actually deliver what they promise.
“Noah” is on ‘Bill Cosby is a Very Funny Fellow…Right!’
For what it’s worth, a large portion of biblical scholarship does not take many of the biblical stories literally - especially in the first eleven chapters of Genesis. They are etiological stories, similar to other cultures. But trying to cram our western culture’s journalistic sense of “did it happen exactly like this” into a culture thousands of miles away and thousands of years ago just doesn’t work regardless of your beliefs. They went for truth in the story, not literal accuracy. And to be honest, a lot of fiction in our times contains much more truth than a lot of what passes for journalism.
cdward, you nailed it. That’s a reason why fiction is contrasted with fact, not truth. Or for that matter, reality. Sometimes parable or metaphor is the only way to tell the truth about who we are, and what it all means.
(My fundamentalist brethren must be having a hissy fit about now…I’m okay with that.)
Yukoneric,,, I bet it was a sleek bass boat, right? I like to put the Old Testament in the field of folklore, some based on fact but maybe distorted in translation, through time and through this spin doctor.
The culprit is the acceptance of faith as a means of knowledge. As long as the phony notion exists that you can learn and know by simply believing all sorts of nonsense survives. Noah and the Ark is a good example of demonstrating how distorted and foolish a belief can prevail though obviously impossible.
Oh! please! let me chime in on these sectarian wranglings.
Basqueian-If Noah was the only literate person, who taught him? And how would his contemporaries know he was literate instead of the alternative?
cdward-It’s not as large as you think. An even larger number believe in the biblical account.
Dale Netherton-In order to conclude that something is impossible one must be in possession of the relevant data or proof instead of just opinioh. Otherwise, this just all becomes academic.
There’s a grain of truth to every tale, even in the bible. Some of those stories have been passed down at least from ancient Sumer.
The Noah story is one of the most common in other sources.
My father is of the opinion that there was a Moses person at some point. But he wasn’t sent out by God to get lost in the desert for 40 years… he was a great military strategist who took a legion of slaves and hid out for a couple generations to build an army out of poor stock.
A note for MadKanga. Yes, Noah was told to take two of every kind of animal and seven pair of every clean animal. The interesting thing is that the definition of clean and unclean animals did not come about until well after the exodus several hundred or thousand years later. So we have something of an anachronism back in the Noah story. Sort of like the knight errant checking his wristwatch.
We got through a quasi religious sectarian comic without anybody being offensive or blaming Bush, Obama, congress, economics, immigration, the auto sector, BP…
This whole discussion is beside the point…including this post, I suppose.
The Bible begins with the statement, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” It’s not presented as a suggestion, or a hypothesis, and it’s not demanded of the reader that you accept it; it’s just there, like an axiom in mathematics. You can accept it – or at least be willing to follow along for the sake of discussion – or not. It’s your free choice. However, if you reject it, since it’s untestable, you can hardly say that you have any logical or scientific basis for doing so…your rejection is as much an article of faith as my acceptance of it. (For what it’s worth, for me the Biblical account of creation is better able to account for human nature as I see it all around me than any alternative…but perhaps that’s just me.)
In the interest of full disclosure, I believe the Nicene creed verbatim – and I could copy it here, but to what end? It won’t convince anyone who actually needs convincing, and it would only pigeonhole me as a (insert your favorite snarky label here) in their minds. Rather, I think we all need more humble acceptance of how little we know and understand compared to what we boast about – and more good-humored compassion toward each other as fellow-travellers in our ignorance.
P.S. for Baslim: I actually love the dust bunnies analogy. :) How lucky for us that we just happen to live in a self-organizing universe where accidents like DNA can happen!
Comics, get yer comics here!
-No, sir, no textbooks, just comics.
Comics, get yer comics here!
-Sorry, no religious texts, ma’am.
Comics, get yer comics here!
-Beer? No. Sorry, Bud.
Comics, get yer comics here!
-No, dear, no booger-brained boy repellent.
Comics, get yer comics here!
-Here ya go, friend. Have a good laugh on me.
All right, this reader will take Baslim’s text and quote it to the
next ignorant, superstitious, flat-earth Christian who pretends
to be spouting the “only truth”. Of course the basis is fear
and ignorance. Titus Livius is noted as saying, “We fear
things is proportion to our ignorance of them.”
@waitingman-According to a Bible Scholar that I once heard, Cain’s wife was a niece who was reputedly quite wicked. Please, I am only the messenger here and cannot give a reference due to this being here say.
Actually balim, the earth was flat by ARTISTOTLE’S LOGICAL decree and the church fathers went with it. Can’t help the misinterpretations human beings bring to the truth.
I have long since decided that atheists are following the old lie that “You can be like God,” That has worked since Eden. And they are merely taking their anger that they AREN’T God on everyone else. Religious folks often try to play God themselves which means they bring the lie into Christianity and it gets backed up against the atheists, both sides pretending to know a lot of things neither one really does, And angry cause no one accepts them as the final authority.
Best of luck to both. I’ll wait for the truth to return and correct everyone’s vision. :-)
Come on, man. Would you have us actually believe that you’ve been doing this as long as you have, and you’re still surprised that your intelligent/articulate/batpoop crazy readers will pounce on any opportunity to ride their own hobby horses? :)
The flood covered the “earth” it is written. The known “earth” at the time of the Genesis story wasn’t that we know now. So maybe the Tigris and Euphrates and Nile, etc, in that area did flood, so a story began. What a tale to entertain the children and to make it good at the same time, answer their questions about where did the animals we have come from. I like the story about why the unicorns got left behind.
glad the debate (despite being besides Wiley’s point) has been civilised so far. made for an interesting read. i’ve gone from indoctrinated Catholic to atheist questioner and have currently swung back to a belief in God separate from a belief in organized religion. i have always liked Cosby’s “Noah” stories. (Hey Larry, meet the Lord! Lord, Larry. Larry, Lord.)
For the fact that I don’t trust what scientist say, I regard the Bible as truth. My choice, no one told me what to believe. Science has been wishy-washy and contradicting itself for generations. Pro-porting a lie long enough doesn’t mean it has value. Darwin was wrong about everything, even he doubted his own findings. Now, the over-educated idiots spew forth Darwinism as the sewage it is. We (mankind) are fools for thinking we are so wise.
Some time ago Wizard of Id had a PR man approach the fink to improve his image. King asked for references, PR said he handled the case of a young girl shacking up with a bunch crazed miners. King asked who she was. PR man said, “ever hear of Snow White?”
You really got the peudointellects this time Wiley. ROFLMAO!
Sigh. I find the conversations fascinating and often want to jump in for a fuller conversation, but it is, of course, just a comic.
Having said that, there is one point I would like to make: Some of the “Christian” posters seem to think science is in direct opposition to Christianity (or any religion). Conversely, some of the atheist posters seem to think that all Christians are unthinking, literalistic, naive, anti-science oafs.
Neither of these is true. Many scientists are believers specifically because they find such awe and wonder in their studies. They are not in awe of their own cleverness but embrace their curiosity. I applaud that. Many Christians find science to be a beautiful way of exploring the creation they believe is made possible by God. For many of us, Faith is the WHO of creation (the soul behind it) whereas Science is the HOW of it all. Darwin works pretty well.
And whoever said there were no contradictions in scripture hasn’t studied it in depth. Of course it has contradictions since opposing parties wrote portions of it to contradict each other (Ruth is a beautiful story and an eloquent argument against some of the excesses of Ezra/Nehemiah).
Part of the genius and glory of the bible is that it does not hide those contradictions but offers is all up as a faithful record of a people’s struggle with their own relationship with God.
“The belief in God means there is reason to believe things occur in a logical, rational fashion.”
imo it’s just the opposite: there is utterly nothing logical or rational about belief in God or the various Christian religions, miracles, stories, myths, rites and canon – isn’t that what faith in the inexplicable and illogical is all about? Belief in the face of all that is irrational?
Oh my! Like we needed all this hot air being blown about! Face it, Doc and Aircraft guy. You are just throwing mud balls at each other and boring most of the rest of us.
I take offense to aircraft-engineer tossing out the “mormon door-knocker” reference since that had no place in the “discussion” nor did it do anything other than make me feel that he is as blinded by his own intellect as he accused exoticdoc2 of being blinded by faith. I am LDS and dislike the stereotype and how it is tossed around as seemingly the most vicious insult around.
I doubt that anyone will actually read this, since the new day’s strip is up now. It mentions Mohammad, so it is sure to cause another explosion like today’s did.
I, for one, found the comments interesting as both sides had arguments with which I agreed. I do believe much of the Old Testament is based on oral tradition that finally became written. I do believe in the big bang theory because of the angle of stones mentioned above. But I also believe in God who unfortunately gave us free will to mess up everything. Currently studying the book “Saving Jesus from the Church” by Robin Meyers and recommend it to commenters above.
Nope, not forced to read it. There was just so much of it while I tried to find comments I cared to read. And it isn’t that the subject of religion and science in regards to how they intersect bores me. It is that two people throwing arguments toward each other when the other really doesn’t care what the former says (nor is willing to even consider the possibilities offered) gets boring after the second or third repeat.
I know I’m coming in a little late (by a month) but I felt I needed to comment on this issue, as I have recently looked into it closely. This may be a little hard to follow, but hang in there!
First, I’m afraid that I am going to have to touch on a different issue: the fossil record. I’m sure that most who read this are aware thet history has been divided into eras and epochs, based upon what life existed at various stages of time. What you may not know is how these divisions were made. The way it worked is this: scientists examined the fossil record, every layer of it. They found that on different layers, different kinds of species were present (both plant and animal). They divided the layers based upon these different species, deciding that those layers which were on the bottom, or deepest levels, were older, because they contained simpler looking specimens. They arranged the geological column accordingly, with certain species, which appeared in only one layer, denoted representitive species. They also assigned dates to each layer, also based upon the “level of evolution” for each species present. Scientists then began to check their assumptions. They found a sample of part of their geologic column, and dated it based on the surrounding layers and the dates they had assigned to those layers. They then checked for the representitive species they had assigned to that approximate date (within a few thousand years). since they found what they had assigned, in the area they assigned it to, they decided that the dates were accurate.
Besides this circular reasoning involved here, there are other problems with this column. The most glaring problem is that there is no place in the world where the ENTIRE geological column has been found in order. In fact, there are areas MILES long where the layers are found in the exact OPPOSITE order to what is expected, with no apparent disordering, and fossils in near-prefect condition. (words in all CAPS are supposed to be italicized, I couldn’t figure out how to do that)
Another HUGE problem is that there are many large fossils (whales, trees, etc) which lay through several layers, spanning MILLIONS of years. These fossils could not have laid there undisturbed for so long, while dirt and other fossils slowly built up around them. The whole process of fossi formation require rapid burial, before decay (and scavengers) completely destroy the potential fossil. The only possible way this could work with a fossil spanning multiple layers is if these thousands of years of rock built up in a few days, at the most.
This brings me back (FINALLY) to the main point under discussion: Noas Ark. A flood could easily lay down many feet of sediment in a matter of hours (and floods have done just this, in the recent past). A WORLDWIDE flood would lay down much more sediment, not just in the 40 days and nights it rained, but for the 150 days it took for all the water to recede (see Genisis 7:24). That provides ample time for the buildup of TONS of sedient, which covered the bodies of all those unlucky animals who did not make it to the ark (including “those silly Unicorns”). Obviously, the smaller animals, unable to cover ground as quckly as their larger counterparts, would perish first, ending up on the bottom of the mud plain.
None of this even touches on the amazing complexity of even the smallest microbe, or the fact that a certain fish, long believed to have gone extinct during the Cambrian period, and to be a missing link between sea creatures, and land animals, was found alive. That fish (who’s name I will not even try to remember how to spell) also proved to be dwell in the deepest oceans, and was thus not likely to be crawl out onto land.
Mabe I will post another essay some other time covering these points.
GROG Premium Member over 14 years ago
And turn boring into interesting.
Sisyphos over 14 years ago
Just a teensy-weensy bit….
ABComic over 14 years ago
There is a G-d. I studied Biotechnology in college and in my opinion anyone who says things like our body can be created “accidentaly” or “by coincidence” is living in denial.
Basqueian over 14 years ago
I think the whole biblical miracle bit is all spun just about like this. After all, if you’re the only literate guy around, writing it down, who’s going to fact check you?
ksoskins over 14 years ago
The story of Noah seems to be at least 50% bull by weight.
Fuzzy Thinker Premium Member over 14 years ago
The survivors write the history- Genesis. Yes, DNA is too complex to exist in ALL cells of ALL species on Earth AND come from a hypothetical accident that cannot be replicated by our brightest scientists since the dawn of time. Do you remember when these pseudo-intellectual atheists USED TO DECLARE that photosynthesis was the only basis for life’s food chain.
jnik23260 over 14 years ago
SKP Tom.V, you still haven’t explained how a handful of men could spend a century building a boat big enough to house two of every species of animal, how some of them (Galapogos tortoise, Amazonian tree sloth), were able to get to where the ark was, or how Noah was able to sacrifice the male of every “clean” animal without causing mass extinctions! Or even where all the water went! It had to be at least six miles deep to cover all the Earth, where did it recede to? Just asking.
Hillbillyman over 14 years ago
“Never let the truth get in the way of a good story”
madKanga over 14 years ago
jnik23260 - sorry, I generally agree with your thesis, but the Genesis story does have more than 2 of the clean animals.
KEA over 14 years ago
Clark Kent said, about 5 hours ago The bible is a fairy tale. There is no god, devil, heaven or h≪ they’re all make believe like Santa Clause and the easter bunny. I like Bill Cosby’s version better anyway, I forget what comedy album it’s on.
Actually, the Bible is myth, but our society has forgotten the values of myths and prefers false reality.
Santa Claus and the Easter Rabbit are better than religion, ‘cuz they actually deliver what they promise.
“Noah” is on ‘Bill Cosby is a Very Funny Fellow…Right!’
cdward over 14 years ago
For what it’s worth, a large portion of biblical scholarship does not take many of the biblical stories literally - especially in the first eleven chapters of Genesis. They are etiological stories, similar to other cultures. But trying to cram our western culture’s journalistic sense of “did it happen exactly like this” into a culture thousands of miles away and thousands of years ago just doesn’t work regardless of your beliefs. They went for truth in the story, not literal accuracy. And to be honest, a lot of fiction in our times contains much more truth than a lot of what passes for journalism.
Yukoneric over 14 years ago
This boat is a little short. There’s a story of my ancestors that says we are not related to Noah, McNeal had his own boat!
peter0423 over 14 years ago
cdward, you nailed it. That’s a reason why fiction is contrasted with fact, not truth. Or for that matter, reality. Sometimes parable or metaphor is the only way to tell the truth about who we are, and what it all means.
(My fundamentalist brethren must be having a hissy fit about now…I’m okay with that.)
Justice22 over 14 years ago
Yukoneric,,, I bet it was a sleek bass boat, right? I like to put the Old Testament in the field of folklore, some based on fact but maybe distorted in translation, through time and through this spin doctor.
Tuner38 over 14 years ago
The culprit is the acceptance of faith as a means of knowledge. As long as the phony notion exists that you can learn and know by simply believing all sorts of nonsense survives. Noah and the Ark is a good example of demonstrating how distorted and foolish a belief can prevail though obviously impossible.
pawnraider over 14 years ago
Oh! please! let me chime in on these sectarian wranglings.
Basqueian-If Noah was the only literate person, who taught him? And how would his contemporaries know he was literate instead of the alternative?
cdward-It’s not as large as you think. An even larger number believe in the biblical account.
Dale Netherton-In order to conclude that something is impossible one must be in possession of the relevant data or proof instead of just opinioh. Otherwise, this just all becomes academic.
GuntotingLiberal over 14 years ago
There’s a grain of truth to every tale, even in the bible. Some of those stories have been passed down at least from ancient Sumer.
The Noah story is one of the most common in other sources.
My father is of the opinion that there was a Moses person at some point. But he wasn’t sent out by God to get lost in the desert for 40 years… he was a great military strategist who took a legion of slaves and hid out for a couple generations to build an army out of poor stock.
Makes for some interesting thinking.
TexTech over 14 years ago
A note for MadKanga. Yes, Noah was told to take two of every kind of animal and seven pair of every clean animal. The interesting thing is that the definition of clean and unclean animals did not come about until well after the exodus several hundred or thousand years later. So we have something of an anachronism back in the Noah story. Sort of like the knight errant checking his wristwatch.
MattNYC over 14 years ago
Baslim,
Thank you–going to clip and save that one for the future. :)
jsprat over 14 years ago
Holy cow!
We got through a quasi religious sectarian comic without anybody being offensive or blaming Bush, Obama, congress, economics, immigration, the auto sector, BP…
Its a comic and its funny!
Thanks Baslim.
peter0423 over 14 years ago
This whole discussion is beside the point…including this post, I suppose.
The Bible begins with the statement, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” It’s not presented as a suggestion, or a hypothesis, and it’s not demanded of the reader that you accept it; it’s just there, like an axiom in mathematics. You can accept it – or at least be willing to follow along for the sake of discussion – or not. It’s your free choice. However, if you reject it, since it’s untestable, you can hardly say that you have any logical or scientific basis for doing so…your rejection is as much an article of faith as my acceptance of it. (For what it’s worth, for me the Biblical account of creation is better able to account for human nature as I see it all around me than any alternative…but perhaps that’s just me.)
In the interest of full disclosure, I believe the Nicene creed verbatim – and I could copy it here, but to what end? It won’t convince anyone who actually needs convincing, and it would only pigeonhole me as a (insert your favorite snarky label here) in their minds. Rather, I think we all need more humble acceptance of how little we know and understand compared to what we boast about – and more good-humored compassion toward each other as fellow-travellers in our ignorance.
peter0423 over 14 years ago
P.S. for Baslim: I actually love the dust bunnies analogy. :) How lucky for us that we just happen to live in a self-organizing universe where accidents like DNA can happen!
HowieL over 14 years ago
Comics, get yer comics here! -No, sir, no textbooks, just comics. Comics, get yer comics here! -Sorry, no religious texts, ma’am. Comics, get yer comics here! -Beer? No. Sorry, Bud. Comics, get yer comics here! -No, dear, no booger-brained boy repellent. Comics, get yer comics here! -Here ya go, friend. Have a good laugh on me.
WaitingMan over 14 years ago
Who was Cain’s wife? Just asking.
vieuxmec over 14 years ago
All right, this reader will take Baslim’s text and quote it to the next ignorant, superstitious, flat-earth Christian who pretends to be spouting the “only truth”. Of course the basis is fear and ignorance. Titus Livius is noted as saying, “We fear things is proportion to our ignorance of them.”
Wiley creator over 14 years ago
SIGH The gag was about memoirs…
pawpawbear over 14 years ago
@waitingman-According to a Bible Scholar that I once heard, Cain’s wife was a niece who was reputedly quite wicked. Please, I am only the messenger here and cannot give a reference due to this being here say.
freeholder1 over 14 years ago
Actually balim, the earth was flat by ARTISTOTLE’S LOGICAL decree and the church fathers went with it. Can’t help the misinterpretations human beings bring to the truth.
I have long since decided that atheists are following the old lie that “You can be like God,” That has worked since Eden. And they are merely taking their anger that they AREN’T God on everyone else. Religious folks often try to play God themselves which means they bring the lie into Christianity and it gets backed up against the atheists, both sides pretending to know a lot of things neither one really does, And angry cause no one accepts them as the final authority.
Best of luck to both. I’ll wait for the truth to return and correct everyone’s vision. :-)
peter0423 over 14 years ago
Wiley said,
SIGH The gag was about memoirs…
Come on, man. Would you have us actually believe that you’ve been doing this as long as you have, and you’re still surprised that your intelligent/articulate/batpoop crazy readers will pounce on any opportunity to ride their own hobby horses? :)
alan.gurka over 14 years ago
Noah, they’ll be no one around to contradict you, so make it a grand ark and a fantastic story.
mjd.kwanyin over 14 years ago
wiley…i got it i think it is funny..and with all of the fall books coming out very well timed….;)
Justice22 over 14 years ago
Mr Miller,, Did you say something?
Mythreesons over 14 years ago
The flood covered the “earth” it is written. The known “earth” at the time of the Genesis story wasn’t that we know now. So maybe the Tigris and Euphrates and Nile, etc, in that area did flood, so a story began. What a tale to entertain the children and to make it good at the same time, answer their questions about where did the animals we have come from. I like the story about why the unicorns got left behind.
Frankr over 14 years ago
Baslim the Beggar is right but Clark Kent put it more succinctly.
HowieL: What? Comics? Oh yeah the comics…..
CrouchingBruin over 14 years ago
Bill Cosby’s Noah routine, illustrated by Legos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epgIrvI1LcU
lazygrazer over 14 years ago
I think this cartoon is every bit as hilarious as the bible is fascinating.
In other words, I can have it both ways whereas most of you obviously can’t.
puddleglum1066 over 14 years ago
If I may summarize/simplify the discussion to date:
“Is NOT!”
“Is SO!!”
“Is NOT!”
“Is SO!!”
(repeat ad infinitum)
worldisacomic over 14 years ago
That guy definitely works for the LA Times!
harrietbe over 14 years ago
LOL!
yyyguy over 14 years ago
glad the debate (despite being besides Wiley’s point) has been civilised so far. made for an interesting read. i’ve gone from indoctrinated Catholic to atheist questioner and have currently swung back to a belief in God separate from a belief in organized religion. i have always liked Cosby’s “Noah” stories. (Hey Larry, meet the Lord! Lord, Larry. Larry, Lord.)
Ice_Bear66 over 14 years ago
For the fact that I don’t trust what scientist say, I regard the Bible as truth. My choice, no one told me what to believe. Science has been wishy-washy and contradicting itself for generations. Pro-porting a lie long enough doesn’t mean it has value. Darwin was wrong about everything, even he doubted his own findings. Now, the over-educated idiots spew forth Darwinism as the sewage it is. We (mankind) are fools for thinking we are so wise.
ububobu over 14 years ago
Some time ago Wizard of Id had a PR man approach the fink to improve his image. King asked for references, PR said he handled the case of a young girl shacking up with a bunch crazed miners. King asked who she was. PR man said, “ever hear of Snow White?” You really got the peudointellects this time Wiley. ROFLMAO!
billdi Premium Member over 14 years ago
apparently there’s noah accounting for zealotry or memoirs
threeguysmom over 14 years ago
Wiley, you sure do start interesting discussions. Whether you want to or not.
BloomCo over 14 years ago
Bill Cosby,
Noah: “What’s a cubit? God: “I used to know what a cubit was.”
cdward over 14 years ago
Sigh. I find the conversations fascinating and often want to jump in for a fuller conversation, but it is, of course, just a comic.
Having said that, there is one point I would like to make: Some of the “Christian” posters seem to think science is in direct opposition to Christianity (or any religion). Conversely, some of the atheist posters seem to think that all Christians are unthinking, literalistic, naive, anti-science oafs.
Neither of these is true. Many scientists are believers specifically because they find such awe and wonder in their studies. They are not in awe of their own cleverness but embrace their curiosity. I applaud that. Many Christians find science to be a beautiful way of exploring the creation they believe is made possible by God. For many of us, Faith is the WHO of creation (the soul behind it) whereas Science is the HOW of it all. Darwin works pretty well.
And whoever said there were no contradictions in scripture hasn’t studied it in depth. Of course it has contradictions since opposing parties wrote portions of it to contradict each other (Ruth is a beautiful story and an eloquent argument against some of the excesses of Ezra/Nehemiah). Part of the genius and glory of the bible is that it does not hide those contradictions but offers is all up as a faithful record of a people’s struggle with their own relationship with God.
oldguy2 over 14 years ago
Never discuss politics or religion, nothing will be decided and sooner or later talk gets down to brass knuckles.
Biltil Premium Member over 14 years ago
Hey Wiley, at least they are off of politics :)
billdi Premium Member over 14 years ago
“The belief in God means there is reason to believe things occur in a logical, rational fashion.”
imo it’s just the opposite: there is utterly nothing logical or rational about belief in God or the various Christian religions, miracles, stories, myths, rites and canon – isn’t that what faith in the inexplicable and illogical is all about? Belief in the face of all that is irrational?
Varnes over 14 years ago
Hey, the cat survived. That’s all I care about!
treered over 14 years ago
like the cover for “My Life in Kenya”….
W6BXQ, John over 14 years ago
Belief is one thing but logically you can’t prove something does not exist!
ellisaana Premium Member over 14 years ago
Personally, I prefer Snorri Sturluson’s (1179-1241) take on gods…
Isn’t this whole argument about personal belief?
Whatever floats your boat…
Can't Sleep over 14 years ago
Gosh, I just thought it was a funny cartoon…
Coyoty Premium Member over 14 years ago
exoticdoc2 said, You simply state the earth is billions of years old and offer not one shred of actual evidence.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-08/ci-aro080910.php
Ernest Lemmingway over 14 years ago
People, it’s a comic! It has about as much substance to it as air or American Idol does.
cutiepie29 over 14 years ago
Oh my! Like we needed all this hot air being blown about! Face it, Doc and Aircraft guy. You are just throwing mud balls at each other and boring most of the rest of us.
I take offense to aircraft-engineer tossing out the “mormon door-knocker” reference since that had no place in the “discussion” nor did it do anything other than make me feel that he is as blinded by his own intellect as he accused exoticdoc2 of being blinded by faith. I am LDS and dislike the stereotype and how it is tossed around as seemingly the most vicious insult around.
I doubt that anyone will actually read this, since the new day’s strip is up now. It mentions Mohammad, so it is sure to cause another explosion like today’s did.
Mythreesons over 14 years ago
I, for one, found the comments interesting as both sides had arguments with which I agreed. I do believe much of the Old Testament is based on oral tradition that finally became written. I do believe in the big bang theory because of the angle of stones mentioned above. But I also believe in God who unfortunately gave us free will to mess up everything. Currently studying the book “Saving Jesus from the Church” by Robin Meyers and recommend it to commenters above.
cutiepie29 over 14 years ago
Nope, not forced to read it. There was just so much of it while I tried to find comments I cared to read. And it isn’t that the subject of religion and science in regards to how they intersect bores me. It is that two people throwing arguments toward each other when the other really doesn’t care what the former says (nor is willing to even consider the possibilities offered) gets boring after the second or third repeat.
alan.gurka over 14 years ago
1opinion, the Gnostics have an answer to your question, but it’s complicated.
etkd over 14 years ago
I know I’m coming in a little late (by a month) but I felt I needed to comment on this issue, as I have recently looked into it closely. This may be a little hard to follow, but hang in there!
First, I’m afraid that I am going to have to touch on a different issue: the fossil record. I’m sure that most who read this are aware thet history has been divided into eras and epochs, based upon what life existed at various stages of time. What you may not know is how these divisions were made. The way it worked is this: scientists examined the fossil record, every layer of it. They found that on different layers, different kinds of species were present (both plant and animal). They divided the layers based upon these different species, deciding that those layers which were on the bottom, or deepest levels, were older, because they contained simpler looking specimens. They arranged the geological column accordingly, with certain species, which appeared in only one layer, denoted representitive species. They also assigned dates to each layer, also based upon the “level of evolution” for each species present. Scientists then began to check their assumptions. They found a sample of part of their geologic column, and dated it based on the surrounding layers and the dates they had assigned to those layers. They then checked for the representitive species they had assigned to that approximate date (within a few thousand years). since they found what they had assigned, in the area they assigned it to, they decided that the dates were accurate.
Besides this circular reasoning involved here, there are other problems with this column. The most glaring problem is that there is no place in the world where the ENTIRE geological column has been found in order. In fact, there are areas MILES long where the layers are found in the exact OPPOSITE order to what is expected, with no apparent disordering, and fossils in near-prefect condition. (words in all CAPS are supposed to be italicized, I couldn’t figure out how to do that)
Another HUGE problem is that there are many large fossils (whales, trees, etc) which lay through several layers, spanning MILLIONS of years. These fossils could not have laid there undisturbed for so long, while dirt and other fossils slowly built up around them. The whole process of fossi formation require rapid burial, before decay (and scavengers) completely destroy the potential fossil. The only possible way this could work with a fossil spanning multiple layers is if these thousands of years of rock built up in a few days, at the most.
This brings me back (FINALLY) to the main point under discussion: Noas Ark. A flood could easily lay down many feet of sediment in a matter of hours (and floods have done just this, in the recent past). A WORLDWIDE flood would lay down much more sediment, not just in the 40 days and nights it rained, but for the 150 days it took for all the water to recede (see Genisis 7:24). That provides ample time for the buildup of TONS of sedient, which covered the bodies of all those unlucky animals who did not make it to the ark (including “those silly Unicorns”). Obviously, the smaller animals, unable to cover ground as quckly as their larger counterparts, would perish first, ending up on the bottom of the mud plain.
None of this even touches on the amazing complexity of even the smallest microbe, or the fact that a certain fish, long believed to have gone extinct during the Cambrian period, and to be a missing link between sea creatures, and land animals, was found alive. That fish (who’s name I will not even try to remember how to spell) also proved to be dwell in the deepest oceans, and was thus not likely to be crawl out onto land.
Mabe I will post another essay some other time covering these points.
Linus13 almost 14 years ago
Whew….glad I missed this one!