Folks always talk about out-sourcing, but they never talk about corporations from overseas INsourcing HERE. It blows away too much of the rhetoric.
Yes, you can get cheap labor in India – I question the “better educated” part, all the best universities are in the US. Generally if you want a hard-working, motivated, educated labor force, you have to stay in the US.
I know this from some painful experience with a company I used to work for that did exactly what we’re talking about. The boss was ever so happy that he could hire 10 programmers for the price of 1, and sunk maybe a quarter of million to half million dollars in hiring overseas programmers, setting up an office overseas, buying equipment, keeping them employed for years and years – and let’s not forget greasing the local bureaucracy.
Come to find out after that fact that those 10 programmers had the productivity of maybe two thirds of one American programmer, and I could tell you his name and recommend him for you except he’s retired now.
Look at any American university. A very large percentage of the students are foreign, including from mainland China.
I would guess that our trade surplus in education is at least ten to one.
Phats–ah, yes, “insourcing.” Like the Ikea factory in Danville, Virginia, where they employ Americans at eight bucks an hour (vs. $18 with five weeks of vacation and much better benefits in Sweden). We are now officially a third world nation, seen only as a source of cheap labor for the developed world.
Well everybody buys the premise for decades now — the whole crux of the problem is that our poor government just isn’t getting enough money to run everybody’s lives. They’re ALL wearing barrels. The government is soooo compassionate and the public is soooo mean and selfish.
We need more cowboy poetry festivals but who is going to pay for it!!
A lot of people seem to forget that most jobs have historically been provided by small businesses owned by single individuals who are then taxed AS INDIVIDUALS, which means they may be treated as millionaires despite being unable to pay themselves enough to live on (oh but they have to make payroll every week regardless).
A tax structure that regards anyone with a high personal income as a villain, is why we’re in the middle of a double-dip recession and quite probably on the brink of a long term Depression – and you people blaming it on cartoon millionaires who never existed, are simply making your own futures worse.
@Lewreader; The wealthy corporation that used to employ me sent my job to India where it is now being done by someone being paid 1/20 what I was. I won’t mention the company’s name but their initials are United Rentals.
Just my opinion, but I think we should go to a flat tax, standard deduction w/ personal exemptions ONLY for personal taxes.
By eliminating the countless deductions (written into the code by rich people for rich people) many rich folks would end up paying just as much or more than they do now.
This, of course, is based on having read from various sources that many of the very rich, while they pay a lot dollar-wise really pay a smaller percentage of their gross than the middle and lower income folks. If that information is, in fact false, then… never mind…
As for corporate taxes - Unrealistic, but I think it would be neat if they could figure out a way to base the rate on the ratio btwn the CEO/President’s salary and the lowest paid employee.
People forget that company A makes a profit for which they are taxed 35% before dividends. They pay Fat Cat dividends after 35% taxes, Fat Cat pays 35% personal income tax on that taxed income.
You and me pay our 28%,er, excuse me 25% tax (thank you Mr Bush). Now no sociologist or religious nuts, but if there are any mathematicians or statisticians, please explain why you think the successful man should pay even more? Envy? Sense of failure? “Fraid you aren’t a man? 40 hour week lazy?
To a modern liberal, there is no such thing as a rich man who pays enough taxes. No matter how much is extorted, it’s always, “Well they can afford it.”
Which is one of the reasons why the companies and jobs are leaving California and moving to Texas.
I don’t recall the exact stats, but the top 10% income earners currently pay something like 60 to 80% of all federal income tax. The bottom 47% don’t pay any federal income tax at all, and they get to vote for Democrats to raise taxes on everybody else.
No country in the history of the world has ever taxed itself into prosperity.
The key is to get spending under control. Part of that is congress padding every bill with earmarks for their own district (it’s Pork for Yours and Bringing Home the Bacon for Mine) A large part is being the Nation’s Nursemaid. Another large part is being the World’s Policeman. Somebody mentioned having troops in Libya, hell we have troops stationed all over world, Europe, Korea, etc.
I don’t think we’re a “third world nation” as someone here opined, but certainly not for want of trying.
Actually a lot of countries have taxed themselves to prosperity. When I started college per capita income in the US was twice the closest competitor. Now we’re something like number twelve. All those European countries that have passed us have significantly higher taxes. They also have healthier workers (affordable health care for all) and a better infrastructure.
@pdchapin - We’re 6-8th in per capita income. The socialist countries are way below us. The capitalist and oil rich countries are ahead of us (Norway = 5th largest oil exporter, 3rd largest natural gas). So much for your theory.
Health care costs money - they pay it in the form of beaucoup taxes. …and their healthcare is worse, they have to wait weeks-months for services. It’s why Natasha Richardson died from a simple head injury in Canada and they tried to save her by helicoptering her to the US.
margueritem over 13 years ago
Excellent!
Phatts over 13 years ago
It would be nice if the Republicans actually could cut the billionaires’ taxes, but right now it seems Obama plans to hold firm.
If they got a nice tax cut, some billionaire could afford to hire me.
lewisbower over 13 years ago
Never been employed by a poor man.
aarken over 13 years ago
I’ve been a self employed poor man.
Coyoty Premium Member over 13 years ago
One has a barrel over him and the other is over a barrel.
Phatts over 13 years ago
Folks always talk about out-sourcing, but they never talk about corporations from overseas INsourcing HERE. It blows away too much of the rhetoric.
Yes, you can get cheap labor in India – I question the “better educated” part, all the best universities are in the US. Generally if you want a hard-working, motivated, educated labor force, you have to stay in the US.
I know this from some painful experience with a company I used to work for that did exactly what we’re talking about. The boss was ever so happy that he could hire 10 programmers for the price of 1, and sunk maybe a quarter of million to half million dollars in hiring overseas programmers, setting up an office overseas, buying equipment, keeping them employed for years and years – and let’s not forget greasing the local bureaucracy.
Come to find out after that fact that those 10 programmers had the productivity of maybe two thirds of one American programmer, and I could tell you his name and recommend him for you except he’s retired now.
Ray_C over 13 years ago
Look at any American university. A very large percentage of the students are foreign, including from mainland China. I would guess that our trade surplus in education is at least ten to one.
Charles Brobst Premium Member over 13 years ago
Return the top rate to 90%. It’s just WRONG that 2% should hoard 85% of all wealth.
puddleglum1066 over 13 years ago
Phats–ah, yes, “insourcing.” Like the Ikea factory in Danville, Virginia, where they employ Americans at eight bucks an hour (vs. $18 with five weeks of vacation and much better benefits in Sweden). We are now officially a third world nation, seen only as a source of cheap labor for the developed world.
Rick51 over 13 years ago
Well everybody buys the premise for decades now — the whole crux of the problem is that our poor government just isn’t getting enough money to run everybody’s lives. They’re ALL wearing barrels. The government is soooo compassionate and the public is soooo mean and selfish.
We need more cowboy poetry festivals but who is going to pay for it!!
phillipmorris over 13 years ago
Somebody obviously hasn’t checked the price of wooden barrels recently.
McGehee over 13 years ago
A lot of people seem to forget that most jobs have historically been provided by small businesses owned by single individuals who are then taxed AS INDIVIDUALS, which means they may be treated as millionaires despite being unable to pay themselves enough to live on (oh but they have to make payroll every week regardless).
A tax structure that regards anyone with a high personal income as a villain, is why we’re in the middle of a double-dip recession and quite probably on the brink of a long term Depression – and you people blaming it on cartoon millionaires who never existed, are simply making your own futures worse.
WaitingMan over 13 years ago
@Lewreader; The wealthy corporation that used to employ me sent my job to India where it is now being done by someone being paid 1/20 what I was. I won’t mention the company’s name but their initials are United Rentals.
JoeRaisin over 13 years ago
Just my opinion, but I think we should go to a flat tax, standard deduction w/ personal exemptions ONLY for personal taxes.
By eliminating the countless deductions (written into the code by rich people for rich people) many rich folks would end up paying just as much or more than they do now.
This, of course, is based on having read from various sources that many of the very rich, while they pay a lot dollar-wise really pay a smaller percentage of their gross than the middle and lower income folks. If that information is, in fact false, then… never mind…
As for corporate taxes - Unrealistic, but I think it would be neat if they could figure out a way to base the rate on the ratio btwn the CEO/President’s salary and the lowest paid employee.
matt over 13 years ago
If he was a barrel of oil, he’d be rich!
lewisbower over 13 years ago
People forget that company A makes a profit for which they are taxed 35% before dividends. They pay Fat Cat dividends after 35% taxes, Fat Cat pays 35% personal income tax on that taxed income. You and me pay our 28%,er, excuse me 25% tax (thank you Mr Bush). Now no sociologist or religious nuts, but if there are any mathematicians or statisticians, please explain why you think the successful man should pay even more? Envy? Sense of failure? “Fraid you aren’t a man? 40 hour week lazy?
Sherlock Watson over 13 years ago
Only one way this scene could get uglier: If that barrel had an unfortunately placed knothole.
Phatts over 13 years ago
To a modern liberal, there is no such thing as a rich man who pays enough taxes. No matter how much is extorted, it’s always, “Well they can afford it.”
Which is one of the reasons why the companies and jobs are leaving California and moving to Texas.
I don’t recall the exact stats, but the top 10% income earners currently pay something like 60 to 80% of all federal income tax. The bottom 47% don’t pay any federal income tax at all, and they get to vote for Democrats to raise taxes on everybody else.
No country in the history of the world has ever taxed itself into prosperity.
The key is to get spending under control. Part of that is congress padding every bill with earmarks for their own district (it’s Pork for Yours and Bringing Home the Bacon for Mine) A large part is being the Nation’s Nursemaid. Another large part is being the World’s Policeman. Somebody mentioned having troops in Libya, hell we have troops stationed all over world, Europe, Korea, etc.
I don’t think we’re a “third world nation” as someone here opined, but certainly not for want of trying.
pdchapin over 13 years ago
Actually a lot of countries have taxed themselves to prosperity. When I started college per capita income in the US was twice the closest competitor. Now we’re something like number twelve. All those European countries that have passed us have significantly higher taxes. They also have healthier workers (affordable health care for all) and a better infrastructure.
sleepeeg3 over 13 years ago
@pdchapin - We’re 6-8th in per capita income. The socialist countries are way below us. The capitalist and oil rich countries are ahead of us (Norway = 5th largest oil exporter, 3rd largest natural gas). So much for your theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListofcountriesbyGDP%28PPP%29per_capita
Health care costs money - they pay it in the form of beaucoup taxes. …and their healthcare is worse, they have to wait weeks-months for services. It’s why Natasha Richardson died from a simple head injury in Canada and they tried to save her by helicoptering her to the US.