Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for June 01, 2013

Don’t be ridiculous. The LIghtworker can do no wrong.

Just ask the regular commenters…Fast and Furious? Nothing. Obamacare? Nada. IRS being used as a political tool? Nothing. War on Journalism? Nothing wrong there! Benghazi? Old news. Executing US Citizens without trial or even arrest? Who did the what, now? No budget in 5 years? Who needs a budget when Congress just keeps raising the debt limit? US Constitution? C’mon, that was written by some old dead white guys like a hundred years ago!

Get with the program, dude. You’re terminally un-hip. The commissars will be notified you know.

Orion

What about Garfield?

I think both sides are wrong. We do have problems that need solving, right here at home.1—Bring our troops home and actually have a DEFENSE force.2—Stop paying off countries that hate us. They are not the mob and we are not that weak.3—Start educating our children in the way that they can learn to think and solve problems. 4—Find ways to provide Universal Health Care without punishing the poor. And let Congress participate just like everyone else.5—Provide for the poor, the disabled, the mentally ill and the dispossessed.6—Provide for the elderly. The way Americans treat there elders is a travesty.7—Last, but not least, come together as a people and unite and rise up against the powers that be. The same powers that love for us to hate one another. Hello neighbor, won’t you be my friend. Can’t we find a way to respect and care about one another?Folks, we will either die hating one another or live loving one another. I prefer to live. How about you?

Trudeau got over his five-day writers block.

must be a beeyotch goin’ through life 3/4 braindead thinkin’ dried paint chip peels are yummy

@John Pike (& Tucci): To follow you prescription, John, would require that which is wofully lacking these days: Patriotism. Tucci demonstrates the spirit which informs much of conservative rhetoric, and which is the opposite of patriotism. They will counter with “Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.” Which is correct. Which is what self-government is all about. However, cons don’t think Americans are capable of managing their own government, or creating efficient and well-run institutions, and demonstrate this by sneering at and undermining those institutions at every turn. Why does anyone vote for people to head the government, when those people object to the very existence of the institutions they are chosen to oversee? Tucci thinks that the idea that we, making use of government institutions, should take care of those unable to take of themselves is “nanny noise” and what we really want is somebody else to take care of us when we are perfectly capable of taking care of ourselves. He quotes Bastiat to that effect. This is an insult, and Bastiat meant it as an insult. Well, as long as the insults French politicians flung at one another 165 years ago are somehow considered relevant, here is what Pierre-Joseph Proudhon had to say to Bastiat in 1850: “Your intelligence sleeps, or rather it has never been awake…You are a man for whom logic does not exist…You do not hear anything, you do not understand anything…Your are without philosophy, without science, without humanity…Your ability to reason, like your ability to pay attention and make comparisons is zero…Scientifically, Mr. Bastiat, you are a dead man.” Well, I think I leave those old Frenchmen to argue among themselves.

Hardly worth addressing you, but the news in the last dew months is all about how the economy has been recovering at a slow but steady pace – which is the most responsible way to recover. The news in California, which is one of the first to fully implement Obamacare (a very modest health care system), is that it has cost less than predicted and saved more. The news from Germany – a country that’s had the same universal health system for more than 130 years – is that it’s one of the few countries around with a truly robust economy. Considering the disaster left to our country by years of deregulation, Obama’s done all right. Now if he can just quite killing people with drones and close Gitmo, he’ll be onto something.

lol, yes Obama is a right winger. to the right of Nixon, lol. that’s about the best we can say for the Socialist, Muslim Interloper. Obama makes Nixon looks Communist. lol

love these trolls. they give me untold laughs, such stupidity and outright ignorance. the ignorane alone makes my day. just thinking about how Michelle Bachmann these trolls are is manna raining down from the sky.

too bad Obama is everything the Koch Bros want. America really is screwed, and wait till the Right wing wakes up one day and finds out. way too late as it already is. bush obama the death knell of America.

That was a scary few days with the Obama bashing. Nice to see we are back to the usual Republican bashing.

To all that “government should take care of us” Nanny noise: stop letting your business interests dictate your foreign policy. you are a republican, not a conservative. BIG DIFFERENCE…

Have you people no shame?

The IRS was used to suppress the right of political speech. The US Justice department pulled hundreds of phone records in clearly illegally obtained warrants.

Have you people no shame or responsibility?

We are talking equal rights for all Americans under the law! Do not parade past abuses to justify present abuses. That is immoral and degenerate. Wrong is wrong.

If you people have no shame and smile to yourself that the Federal government is being used to destroy people who merely have a different political view than your own then this nation is finished.

Yes, the bureaucracy of this government will continue. But at this point a “citizen” of this nation enjoys no rights. We are all mere subjects.

And the fact of the matter is any person who joins the military to defend worthless degenerate like yourself is wasting their time. You’re treacherous, envious, lying, and degenerate people who only care about your own self interests.

And you have no shame.

I think it’s time to pass the hat of the Worlds Policeman on to someone else. It seems to me that at the end of the day it hasn’t been a very successful program for us. Let the Chinese try that role for awhile. Maybe then we could focus or time, money and energy on our own country.If we keep our military strength up to current levels while taking care of our own messes we would still have the ability to keep the Chinese from getting too expansionist while they take their turn at being world policeman.

It’s amusing to hear the comparisons. “This is just like the kind of crimes Nixon used to do! Remember?” Yes, and we remember your lot saying he did nothing wrong, the president is above the law, and it’s unpatriotic to question any of it, and it’s kind of amusing to hear them use it now as a yardstick for evil.

Yeah?

Bite me, jerk.

We are allowed to hate one another. I sure don’t have to like you when all your side does is tax, tax, tax, regulate, regulate, and regulate.

Heck, your side is so sick as to give welfare payments to future Islamic terrorists from Russia.

Pity we can’t hash this out like they did years past.

So you’re finding out that some of younger folks can’t stand some of the worthless and weak leftists who opine here 24/7.

Those old folks don’t have to live with the bills those worthless babyboomer ran up in their lives.

Those old folks smile when the IRS and government agencies are used to suppress free speech.

Man your side is sick and twisted.

Forget Peace…. just look at how much hatred and name-calling goes on right here, and this is a COMIC strip, for cryin’ out loud…

I would really…seriously….want to hear exactly what it is that government is restricting you from doing that you want to do so badly that you are this angry. And what it is that government DOES do for you that you would be happy to do without in order to make that happen.

You clearly know even less about me. I don’t expect to have a grave, but if you feel like dancing, I’m sure it’s good for you.

Thanks Masterskrain, for sharing that Prez. Ford was a fan of Doonesbury!

We will see what happens 5 years from now when lots of folks will not have to go into bankruptcy due to medical debt. Medicare wasn’t popular when it was first passed either.

Can’t compare Obama to Nixon. Nixon got the US out of Vietnam, normalized relations with China, extended minority rights. Sure, he also had an enemies list and used his party and government departments to attack them.Obama got the US out of Iraq, sort of, and normalized relations with uh, illegal aliens. He extended sex rights, created a for-profit health care system at the behest of Big Pharma and private insurance companies. He also is using the IRS, EPA, Justice and State departments to attack his personal, perceived enemies. He never takes responsibilities for his mistakes and lies about his/his inner circle’s involvement in the decisions at the IRS, State, Justice, and EPA. The IRS targeting pro-life groups and conservative groups (while not targeting pro-abortion groups, left wing groups, Occupy groups), the EPA denying access and funding to conservative scientists (and not to left wing scientists), Now some will say that he and his inner circle knew nothing about the IRS attacks, EPA bias, State and Justice crimes; in other words, they say Obama is ignorant and incompetent, not malicious and a criminal, asleep at the wheel (his inability to create economic policies/a budget do suggest that). This isn’t Clinton sleeping around, this isn’t Nixon being paranoid, this is a guy trying to push his own worldview on us while calling it ‘freedom’, who attacks his enemies using gov’t dept. and lies about it day and night. He got caught, deal with it.

I know the righties seem to think that the Canadian healthcare system is something akin to genocide, yet people are not trying to get rid of their healthcare system in Canada or any number of other places like it, namely every modern nation in the world.

I wonder what you’d say if you found out President Romney had used the IRS to interfere with pro-abortion groups and socialist organizations, had gotten the EPA to get rid of all ‘global warming nuts’, had wiretapped Huff post and MSNBC and chilled their work, had ignored an Ambassador’s repeated requests for security before he died ( a lot of you nuts seem to think how many people died makes a difference, as if single murderers should go free), had extended gun rights for children and ‘accidentally’ put guns in drug gang hands, used Justice to harass his opponents, etc, and then lied about it all, denied knowledge, denied responsibility, and THEN took responsibility for upticks in the economy caused by Democrat-forced policies, you’d all say nothing. Sheep.

Yes, there are some who feel that the healthcare reform bill should have gone further. I agree with that, but at least it was a step forward! Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water!

Science is science, it is not left wing or right wing.

What would you call Iran?Contra under Reagan et al? They practically tore up the Constitution and used it for toilet paper.

I love it! Watching the cons spew forth all of this anger because they can’t get a Watergate for a Democrat. LOL!Sorry cons, you still have the one and only Tricky Dick and his crimes are not to be equaled.

My, that building is really rockin’ and jivin’ and tiltin’ today!

You decry ad hominem argument, while practicing it? Interesting. Why condemn it when you are so constant in your employment of it? “I think we can leave your head tucked securely all the way up where you’ve shoved it, can’t we?” If that isn’t an ad hominem, then what is? Obviously, you did not bother to actually read my post. Bastiat’s comment was not analysis. It was willful misrepresentation of another’s view. No more reasoned or reasonable that Proudhon’s spluttering. Neither of which I was endorsing. In fact, if you were paying attention, you would see that I was condemning both.

So let me be clear: I don’t approve of freeloaders, nor laws nor institutions that enable them. I do approve helping those who can’t help themselves, and enabling those who stumble to get back on their feet. Can you understand the distinction?

@Tucci

I appreciate all the “dots” that you provide, however, I’m just not getting the “connections”.

I was wondering if you could spell out in a little more detail how some of the things that you are concerned about actually operate in the real world.

I understand that you believe that a big part of the problem is government secrecy. So perhaps you could offer just some hypothetical examples of the types of directives, meetings, communications or thoughts of the various principles that form the “glue” for your model of what’s happening.

You could just start with any one of your assertions, and lay out any sort of hypothetical explanation about how that actually happens. You know, person X has idea A, and talks to person Y about it, who send it to group Z, who then do C. Or, action R is similar to past action Q, S and T, which had your predicted consequences V. That sort of thing. Just so it fits into a framework of potential possibility.

I’m concerned that without connecting the dots, people might think that you don’t have a coherent model of the world at all, and that you’re simply making up incendiary comments to try to garner personal attention.

Otherwise people might have to give credence to your comments based on the authority of your personal background, which of course I appreciate that you would be reluctant to make public in this forum. Unless I’m mistaken about that?

Awww, I’m so sorry for Garry. Nasty people are calling your guy Nixon? Tsk tsk. You must feel terrible. Don’t worry, it won’t stick if there’s no truth to it.

The way the GOP talks now, it is a wonder how he was able to garner so many votes back in 1972! He was their man,the one they were so solidly behind, remember? If I had been old enough, I would never have voted for him, nor did anyone in my family, several of whom had the Don’t blame me I didn’t vote for him bumper sticker. How many GOP who are vilifying Nixon voted for McGovern? Not many I would say, though he was a far superior candidate. If they didn’t like Nixon so much they could have voted for someone else or not at all. Instead, he was their man!

The state is the executive arm of the community. As imperfect as it is, It is our only means of keeping our society civilized. It is folly to think otherwise.

If you don’t know that the tea party members of congress has made references about Obama as hitler and Stalin, you haven’t been paying attention. The tea party has embarrassed themselves many, many times. Too bad it isn’t just sarcasm GT was using.

“Argumentum ad hominem isn’t simple insult, you blithering dolt”

Violent argument is the reaction of someone insecure in their own position. I’m sorry Tucci, your comments leave me wanting less and less of your wisdom(?).

“John I too prefer life over death but some here obviously would rather die than give up their cherished hatred.”

And Red, their hatred will kill us all. They just can’t let go. A sad time for people who would extend a hand of solidarity to their neighbor.

Right, keep reminding us of the crook Nixon and that he was a Republicant and the criminal Raygun with his Iran/Contra crack in L.A. dealings and of course the biggest criminals of them all, Bush/Cheney. All Republicants!

“Forget “scandal” and “controversy.”

Well said! I believe you have correctly analyzed this situation! How refreshing!

Then why is it we are so determined to keep our disfunctional governments?

Ours may be the most extreme at the moment, but that can certainly change.

If that is true ("The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else.”), why are we so determined to have governments? They are expensive to support at best, and lethal at worst.

Not that anarchy doesn’t have it’s appeals, these days in particular, but do you really support that?

Every time Obama tries to make a dent in that fascism (call a spade a spade, eh?) he gets trampled by fascists. His opposition, astoundingly enough, was an even worse prospect, but opposition followers have made it impossible for him to achieve anything at all.

You did notice, didn’t you, that we’ve had this trend to fascism since the Reagan administration, if not before? Were you squalling for it to stop under Bush Sr? Under Clinton? Under Bush Jr? It seems very unlikely that any one, single person, man or woman, can put this straight in four, or even eight years.

Grow up.

Actually, what we have to do is move into the future with the idea of implementing the kind of security and prosperity we still had fifty years ago.

We can’t go back – you never can go back. But you can set goals to achieve that prosperity, and work to meet them.

That is what is not happening today, but where we need to go.

What you actually seem to be complaining about here is what ‘conservative’ administrations have agressively pushed, and which ‘liberal’ administrations have largely ignored if not outright supported.

So – what’s your beef??

Gosh, that sure sounds like a different way to say ‘I got mine’ …

Perhaps you didn’t mean it that way, though …

Why do you hate the Constitution? Seriously.

No one is ready for a major war against radical islam; the point isn’t a ‘major war’, which would entail an opponent who is in some way an actual risk to us, it’s having random countries to toss bombs and drones at. That supports the weapons makers, which is, of course, the most important consideration we face today.

Of course, if we go on this way, taking candy from babies, as it were, we may manage offend a country which would be a threat to us.

It would certainly be much the best for all of us if we could work together. There are just a lot of us who don ’t think this is likely to happen with the current version of the GOP.

I think a abetter question might be, do they actually police their account policies?

I have never posted anywhere where the policy wasn’t one account per poster. In most places there are at least occasional violations.

YMMV, of course …

I think a abetter question might be, do they actually police their account policies?

I have never posted anywhere where the policy wasn’t one account per poster. In most places there are at least occasional violations.

YMMV, of course …

I really hope you are right. If that were to happen, we’d only have to focus on the Dems. We could think of it as a sort of simplification of the issues. I don’t know, though. The Dems have had their turn to make a whole bunch of people mad without actually making much forward progress; that’s their job. If it doesn’t get handed back to the GOP, it will be more difficult to maintain the polarization which has put us here. So … might help, though. Fingers crossed, and all …

I think that some of us, whatever our religions or political persuasions, don’t see retirement and health care as ‘communism’, for starters. Our support for that is probably pretty extreme, considering the government’s position in general.

And we reject ad hominem attacks and name calling … and we resent the fact that when the GOP has the con, anything goes, but when the Dems are in, they can do nothing right. By GOP design … and for them there are no grey areas whatever, for them, there can be only one ‘right’ opinion, and it is theirs. They can’t understand the intellectual exercise of arguing both sides of an issue, not to convince, but to expose more facets of it. Nothing is as simple as the teabaggers want to make it.

Heinlein was almost as good as Asimov. And he had that right for sure. ‘The Moon is a Harsh Mistress’ is one of my favorite Heinleins!

Yeah, a few well off Canadians come to the States to schedule elective procedures they don’t have the patience to wait for. Necessary care is free to all. Everywhere in the First World except here – and a few third world countries. Maybe you should take a nap, recharge the batteries.

Thanks, Jpirard. I am glad to see you on this thread as well.

“Argumentum ad hominem isn’t simple insult, you blithering dolt, but rather an invalidating logical fallacy …”Hilarious. And I’ll bet you don’t even see the irony.

The ending of mid-rats is part of the draw-down that will bring the troops home. We need to get out of Afghanistan – and we should never have been there in the first place.

“Besides, kicking you “Liberal” puckers in the metaphorical equivalent of the generative apparatus is a healthy and merry exercise, good for the morale of those decent, productive, honest men and women upon whom you parasites and predators fasten.”And finally you admit that you post not to discuss or debate or even persuade, but just to vent your (obviously quite diseased) spleen.I am a decent, productive, honest person, working for a living and making my best effort to harm no one. I find your posts and your angry, snotty attitude a sad reflection on the state of conservative thought.

Tucci, no one is “soiling” themselves in fear of you. You have an extremely exaggerated idea of your importance.

" … the source of sovereign power is vested in the citizens themselves …"Absolutely true. What you can’t – or won’t- acknowledge is that most of your fellow citizens don’t support your view of the proper use of that power. You may foam at the mouth about it, but you ignoring it won’t make it go away.

I told them not to drink the water.

Of course – anyone who disagrees with you is a traitor, unpatriotic, the enemy.What a child you are.

“I agree, that’s exactly what those whose only goal is to obstruct the President of the United States should be charged with.”-Blind obedience to President Obama’s every wish is required for non-treason.I suspect President Obama would disagree with you.Then what would you do? To disagree with him would be treason in your mind but agreeing with him would be to not accuse everybody of treason who dared obstruct him.Oh, my head! Does not compute. Does not compute.Rebooting

The rules have to be changed:-The V.A.’s own rules may make delays worse. V.A. policy, for instance, prohibits veterans from paying a lawyer or other consultant to help with the complicated and confusing paperwork — even if the help comes from other veterans or individuals accredited by the V.A. Consequently, many veterans depend on veterans service officers, the well-intentioned volunteers and employees of nongovernmental organizations trying to help veterans navigate the V.A. bureaucracy.

“If the ad hominem is relevant then it is appropriate to the argument.”-Logically impossible. Ad hominem is an attack of the person making the argument rather than the argument itself.A simple example would be to say,“The sky is blue” and respond, “What do you know, you’re cross-eyed!”or perhaps, “How dare you call the sky blue when you yourself admitted it was rainy yesterday.”Still not hitting it perfectly, let me try one more time, “You say it is blue but you are a fascist.”That attacks the maker of the statement rather than the question of whether or not the statement is false.

“The only way the war can end is when they surrender.”-Or destroy all opposition, of course.

“I honestly believe that we’ll never elect another Republican President.”-Possible, but unlikely.It all depends on the candidate put forward. If the best candidate is a Republican, we will elect a Republican. If the best candidate is a Democrat, that will be president.If the best candidate is from some other party, that one MIGHT become president all depending on whether or not the Republicans and Democrats manage to stifle the will of the people into only chosing between their two parties.

Nixon WAS a statesman, he was just also a crook.

“Really!? When did they start the war? What was the Afghan equivalent of Pearl Harbor?”-The government of Afghanistan harbored the masterminds of 9/11/01. That was worse than Pearl Harbor because it was an attack on military might rather than just an attack on common folk. -That government continued to harbor the attackers until such time as we drove it from power. (We won the war, we just didn’t have enough sense to get out after winning or to set up a puppet government which would end such attacks in the future.)

“Nope. If you’re supporting our Fraudulence-in-Chief – the Left Hand of Darkness hisself – in any way whatsoever, you’re in collusion with a political movement aimed at the violation of your neighbor’s unalienable individual human rights, and therefore an avowed and uncontrovertable enemy of both society and the republic.”

If we accept your definition as true, then you are also an enemy of both society and the republic because you have supported President Obama by paying your taxes or any other compliance with law. -Welcome to the club.

‘’…the source of sovereign power is vested in the citizens themselves..’’

And how can they do that, pray tell ? By selecting among themselves representatives who will be given the power for a limited period of time to do whatever they believe is in the best interest of the community as a whole. And be held accountable for their work after a given number of years. This is called democracy, and it’s by far the best system we have.

Each citizen acting on his own flies in the face of common sense.

“Loud Rude Buzzer Noise!”

This is dynamite stuff! You should stop messing around with words and look to this rich new source of annoying sounds you can make. Much more efficient.

Just the the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Tucci said,

Oh, goodie! The victim of extortion is now supposed to be an accessory after the fact to the crime of extortion by which he has been screwed out of his valuta. Tell us all, please, how you feel about rape victims. Surely, they were all “just asking for it,” right?".Good, you are starting to see the flaw in his reasoning. Rape victims are not asking to be raped and people who think President Obama well intended are not treasonous.-Or are we to assume he has paid every last federal tax under protest?Are we to assume he has enjoyed every last federal benefit under protest?.Me not think so.

Too bad for you that it didn’t happen, isn’t it?

Right, let’s all trust in the Great Corporations, instead, like BP (Oil Spills) Keystone (same problem) Monsanto (pesticides in the food) GE (graft, fraud, etc) Or should we just go with the Church? (child molesters)