Doonesbury by Garry Trudeau for September 16, 2012

First ran on July 10, 2011.

He was 600 years old? That was before fast food, and corn dogs!

Duped people are soooo cute!

Thank you!

Sheesh!What a religion!Is this a history class?

No, tell the Norse version! No, wait, the Hindu version, it takes longer. Ooh, but the Egyptian one is the best, and involves parthenogenesis, an actual scientific principle.

This is too accurate… Unfortunately as more nonsense is hi-lighted, Those nut cases just pretend that that story is either irreverent OR misunderstood…

The Sumerian king Ziusudra of Shuruppak inherited the rulership from his father. The Akkadians called him Utnapishtim or Atra-Hasis.Ziusudra reigned as both king and gudug priest for 10 sars of 3,600. In that time the gods decided to destroy mankind, but the god Enki warned Ziusudra through a hole in the reed wall. Ziusudra built a boat with bitumen and a roof, like apsu.Then the flood swept over . . .

Lake Agassiz was an immense glacial lake located in the middle of North America. In 6200 BC the collapse of the ice dam holding back the lake released an enormous cascade of water that added an estimated 1 to 3 m (3.3 to 9.8 ft) to total global sea level. The initial pulse may have occurred in a matter of weeks. Coincided with mass migrations and rise of agriculture:http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-11/uoe-fk111507.php

Shouldn’t they be teaching creation as according to the Quran? We’re supposed to bend over backwards to keep from offending Muslims while they tear down the churches of other religions, destroy the monuments of other religions, burn the writings of other religions, and kill anyone who doesn’t believe in their religion. After all, we need to respect that.

How does a lunar calendar (Jews and Muslims still use a lunar calendar; in Israel the year is 5772, in most Muslim countries it is 1433) change months to years, and make Noah 600 months old? Noah’s son Shem has a son at 100, and lives another 500 years after that. So, if you’re right and the"years" were months, then Shem died at 41 and had his son when he was 8. A myth is a sacred story, usually intended to explain the origin of something. Rational Christians understand the Bible to be myth, not history, and seek there for meaning not facts. The way one may consider a poem. “You can take the Bible literally, or you can take it seriously, but you can’t do both.”

A careful, comprehensive, and educated reading of Genesis does not make those claims. I’m not going into it here (you’re welcome), but don’t accept the generally accepted interpretation. It’s wrong. But the Word is not wrong. Instead of taking shots at something one does not understand, one should make an effort learn something.

And do not try to enlist me in a debate here. You will be ignored. This is not the place. (That’s why I didn’t go into it.) Leave me some contact information and I will gladly explain.

“Before the beginning, there was this turtle. And the turtle was alone. And he looked around, and he saw his neighbor, which was his mother. And he lay down on top of his neighbor, and behold! she bore him in tears an oak tree, which grew all day and then fell over — like a bridge. And lo! underneath the bridge there came a catfish. And he was very big. And he was walking. And he was the biggest he had seen. And so were the fiery balls of this fish, one of which is the sun, and the other, they called the moon….”

Firesign Theatre – "I Think We’re All Bozo’s On This Bus.

@DOUGHFOOT: The Jewish calendar is actually a lunar calendar periodically (I can’t remember the formula) adjusted to be alligned with the soler calendar. The Muslim calendar is strictly lunar and takes 33 years to circle around the solar calendar as the Muslim year is 11 days shorter.

Reply

And what do Conservatives think of that Commie Pinko Jesus, when he said “Take all that you have, give it to the poor, and come and follow me.”or when his followers, “held everything in common and distributed to each as had need.”Sorry Jesus, Communism and Socialism don’t work!

these same people think that the flintstones is a reality show. carbon dating and fossils…don’t believe that. dna…don’t believe that. like some people say, religion ruins everything.

Okay, rpmurray, nicely deflected.

Now come clean. Do YOU believe in the theory of evolution?

Oh no, next you will tell me wrestling isn’t real.

ok first they have proven we are 4% percent different genetically from apes. Second if we teach one religion in school we should teach all. So EVERYBODY get your chickens!!!!!!

“Evolutionist’s seem to know everything about the missing link, except the fact that it’s missing.” Hate4 to bust anybodies bubble but if anyone does actually have scientific proof that evolution works, Look up Dr Kent Havilund. He’s one of the leading authorities in favor of evolution. His website posts a $250.000 reward for anyone that can provide such scientific proof.

It’s never been claimed.

I dont and wont.

@wcorvi ….ah, so we’re down to a specific gap in the fossil record again, now that most of the other bugbears have been put to rest (see Why Evolution Is True by Jerry A. Coyne for a lengthy list of creationist objections to evolution based on gaps in the fossil record that have been filled.)

I’ll take that gap. The methodological naturalism behind the theory of evolution and pretty much every other field of science out there gets RESULTS. As far as I’m concerned, science “disproving” the Bible (or holy writ of one’s choice) only disproves humankind’s conceit that they possess ultimate understanding. Or, put the other way, science proves our understanding of God’s role in the universe is not what we’ve decided it is, but what He’s decided it is.

Apologies to @wcorvi — the response was to @sammysock.

All religions are cults

I believe in Peanut Butter. .So why do so many so-called Christians believe God created them, but African Americans are devolved apes?

Most religions I’ve seen are little more than hiding behind a “holy book” and using it to justify being s selfish, greedy, bigot.

You all should learn to read science books and take a logic class.

Ah, I love the sound of mythology being discussed in the morning!

Everyone has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another beer…. Packratjohn, born-again pagan.

Don’t confuse them with scientific logic. They know the Truth because God told them so, and She’s always right !

actually it is intelligent design and it has just as much if not more evidence than evolutionary theory.

evolutionary theory fits the evidence NOT the other way around. There is no ‘proof’ of evolution. It is circular reasoning to to presume evolution is true because ‘the evidence fits’. the evidence is explained by evolution, but is hardly proof.

if i were to say “a flying spagetti monster put this glass of water on my desk” and then said that my statement was true because the glass of water ‘proves’ my statement, i would be doing the same thing evolutionist do.

Yeah, socialism has failed Norway horribly. Worst place in the world.

Christians did their fair share of burning and killing in the name of Jesus. Ask the Myans and the American Indian.

“Christian Taliban people actually believe this. And they vote.”#Since these Christian Taliban people are not taught anything else, or even how to think for themselves, what would you expect them to believe? If all you had to learn from was a “bible/book” all your life, you would believe it as well!

To those who are insisting that the Bible is just as valid as science, you seem to be forgetting that dinosaurs did exist, that carbon dating does exist and that there are ways of validating many of the claims of science, unlike many basic claims we find in the Bible. Many who worship in a church or synagogue also accept science and certainly do not believe in intelligent design. BTW, anybody watch SNL last night? I was impressed by their new Obama. But heaven forbid that anyone would get off topic, even though we already read and discussed this particular strip…

One aspect of this debate which is often forgotten is that there are many scientists who also belong to a religion, whether it is Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, or other religion. Those who have a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible are not the only people who own those books. It is possible for a scientist to read and interpret the Bible in a less literal way, therefore allowing such a person to belong to a religion and yet also understand the scientific world. Although more and more of the population is not religious at all, there are many critical thinkers of science who are also believers.

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. Theodosius Dobzhansky (1900-1975)By religion I mean a set of beliefs held as dogmas, dominating the conduct of life, going beyond or contrary to evidence, and inculcated by methods which are emotional or authoritarian, not intellectual. Bertrand Russell

Classic! Belongs in the MMFA.

It seems odd to me that this topic continues to be brought up as one which is Christians vs. Scientists. Those who believe in intelligent design are only a subset of those who call themselves Christian. The lines should not be drawn in that way at all. Right wing Christians vs. Scientists is more like it.

Hey they even convienced Bobby Jindal to convert.

You’re right… They aren’t taliban as that is specific to their goup. We’ll just remember the inquisition, crusades, witch burning, child molestation through the ages…. Should I go on?

This one’s a classic! LOVE IT!

Apparently, although the protestors in the middle east have said they were protesting because of a second rate movie produced in the United States, this was really only an excuse. It took place on 9/11, which also tells us that it had been planned before they had even heard about the movie. As horrible as the protests were, it doesn’t really compare to the horrible situation in the middle east a few years ago, when we lost several thousand American lives as well as many middle eastern lives. Yes, war is always to be avoided to the greatest extent possible. As someone who knows many who have sacrificed for their country, I would say we should attempt to avoid war as much as possible. So, no I don’t think we will be starting a war due to the fact that a subset of Christians might be offended by a strip in Doonesbury, and I am very grateful for that. Also, just as I don’t believe that all Christians are right wingers who believe in intelligent design, I also don’t believe that all Muslims are extremists like those who stormed our embassy.

Mahmoud says “I keel you!” Just ask Jeff Dunham.

Happy Rosh Hashanah, fellow New Yorker.

Wow! Lot of comments for a rerun. When this one ran originally, it had 339 comments.

Suggested reading:“American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America” by Chris Hedges“Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism” by Michelle GoldbergSince I’m sure you know about these books, I can only presume that you are intentionally propagating your own lies with a view to establishing a theocratic police state.

Add to that public schools and state universities.

He didn’t forget the dinosaurs, they call them “Republicants” now.

Yesterday, I apologized to you for calling another poster certain names. If you read the comments he posted after I apologized to you, I was right in the first place to call him those names.

To those that say “It’s just a theory.”:

If you go to sleep and there is no snow on the ground, and when you wake up there is snow on the ground. it snowing during the night is a THEORY. You didn’t see it snow, there is no direct evidence that it snowed. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that it snowed. You parked in the driveway last night. If it snowed during the night there would be snow on your car. There is snow on your car! That is further circumstantial evidence that it snowed during the night. There is more evidence in support of the theory of evolution than in support of the theory that it snowed in the example above.

RPMurray you’re talking about zealots and fanatics. Regular folks don’t make the news. Think of Rev. Fred Phelps and the evangelical Christian Eric Jerome Rudolph. Both are christian but don’t represent the actions of most christians.

You’re back! Mythreesons was worried about you.

Billy Graham:

 "I don’t think that there’s any conflict at all between science today and the Scriptures. I think that we have misinterpreted the Scriptures many times and we’ve tried to make the Scriptures say things they weren’t meant to say, I think that we have made a mistake by thinking the Bible is a scientific book. The Bible is not a book of science. The Bible is a book of Redemption, and of course I accept the Creation story. I believe that God did create the universe. I believe that God created man, and whether it came by an evolutionary process and at a certain point He took this person or being and made him a living soul or not, does not change the fact that God did create man. … whichever way God did it makes no difference as to what man is and man’s relationship to God."1

Evolution is a theory, it cannot be proven in a lab, and no one was there . It is a theory, accepted by faith. Creation is a theory, it cannot be proven in a lab, and no one was there. It is a theory. Accepted by faith. The difference, Evolution must be accepted by faith in man. Creation is accepted by faith in God. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Man will always let you down.

While it is true that carbon dating only goes back 50000 years you must remember that creationists don’t believe earth goes back even that far…

I do find it pathetic that otherwise educated people in the 21st century in the United Stares of America actually believe in the nonsense that is called ‘Intelligent Design’. It is embarrassing beyond belief. And most of these same people do NOT believe in a woman’s right to choose. How, how, can that possibly be.

nice misrepresentation

Wouldn’t it be great if people quit believing in magic and fairy tales?

Creationists believe the earth began 6000 years ago, as opposed to 4.5 billion years ago. Yes, carbon dating only goes back 50,000 years, but 50,000 years is indeed much further back than 6,000.

You have been missed! Glad to see you back at the computer and challenging us with your insights.

Today’s Strip: The Innocence of Christians.

Isn’t Liberty University a good college?

Sorry, I didn’t read the last half of these gazillion comments, just skimmed through. Didn’t glimpse a reference to the end of one of my favorite stories on the subject at hand , “It’s turtles all the way down!,” which I thought involved someone challenging Darwin, but according to Wikipedia goes all over the map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

“There is no ‘proof’ of evolution.”

So, God made AIDS 6000 years ago, but it didn’t appear for the first 5,800 hundred or more, I guess?

We don’t fully understand gravity, thus can’t actually “prove” that it exists. We still can use what we know about it to predict things…none of us are worried that all our possessions will suddenly decide to float away from the earth.

One involved in the study of biology sees evidence of evolution over and over again, as we see new evidence of gravity every time an object falls or remains where it is supported. Vestigial structures, characteristics whose development can be seen over time in the fossil record, new species of microbes…there’s an endless supply of support for evolution if one takes the time to look.

This is modern America, where people who don’t know DNA from RNA think they know biology better than biologists.

I thought a lunar month was 28 days, or from new moon to new moon.

I’ll take the “Old Earth Creationists” (those who believe that, while Life, the Universe and Everything was created by God, the process took of billions of years) seriously when they I see them engage in serious and strenuous debate with the “Young Earth Creationists” (those who believe Creation is roughly 6,000 years old).

The idea that evolution (the change of species over time) has occured is about as open to question as the idea that the Earth orbits the Sun rather than vice versa. Whether “Natural Selection” or “Intelligent Design” is the ENGINE of that change is the only ground for meaningful discussion (although it’s doubtful that anybody on either side will ever change their minds).

God said to NoahThere’s gonna be a floody, floodyGod said to NoahThere’s gonna be a floody, floodyGet those children out of the muddy, muddy

Don’t paint the entire religion by the actions of a few who have twisted the faith to meet their political ends. (By the way Jews, and Christians can fall into this same category.) Take a read here and see what it is really about. http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/people.htm

Did you see any info on the “college” that gave him a “PhD”? As little as $25 a month for all the credits you can “earn”.

Actually they do know that. Which is why they are liberals, and not socialists or communists. Some (not all) conservatives, however, don’t know the difference between liberalism, socialism, and communism. Do they know the difference between conservatism and libertarianism?

If you are standing on a ledge, and I say I will catch you if you jump, and you believe I will — that is opinion. If you jump — that is faith.

Ah Louisiana, making Mississippi look good for decades now.

Their year is still a year, it’s just that a lunar calendar uses 12 new moon-to-new moon months in one year, which is off from the true solar year. That is why major Jewish and Islamic holidays fall at seemingly random dates from a Gregorian/Julian point of view. The Jewish year is 12 lunar months, so Noah was, in fact, 600 HEBREW years old, which would be about 550 Gregorian years (336 days in a year vice 365, rough napkin math).

The Hebrew calendar is based on the Biblical timeline from the dawn of Adam and Eve. The current year is 5773 (if I’m off a bit, forgive me), which, if you used your theory, the Garden of Eden would have occurred in 1531 AD.

What if he draws a picture of Mohammed?

Communism like Libertarianism is a Utopian fantasy, that has never been attempted on a national scale. Socialism works just fine in certain areas likes garbage collection and healthcare. The problem with the Soviet Union and most of the European countries that have scaled back their socialism, is when governments try to create a what is called a “command economy”. That’s when bureaucrats try to push grand five year plans through. It works okay with a simple industrial economy, but as the economy gets more complicated, it falls apart due to lack of flexibility and cronysim.On the other hand, lack of government control and forcing corporations to bear what would other wise be external costs, like pollution and product safety type problems leads to a pretty awful life for most of the people.Our Government is charged with protecting the General Welfare. The modern GOP seems to have erased that part of the Constitution from their minds.

Redkaycei Repoc — old folks, young earth — actually my anthropological calculations put it at 6016 years old (4004 BC was the magic date).

Hey Guard — try googling Christian Taliban and then come back & say it doesn’t exist.

Radiocarbon Dating is good to about 70,000 years ago.

Actually, the correct conclusion to draw from using Occam’s Razor is that the entire bible is fiction, presenting the thoughts of the group that wrote it. I’d add that, both scientifically and morally, they were stuck at a Babylonian-empire level.

Intelligent Design is not the same as the creation history from Genesis. Intelligent Design (which many folks want taught in schools) deals with scientific concepts such as statistical probabilities, entropy, the laws of thermodynamics and irreducible complexity.

Not all folks who support ID are Christian creationists, they just acknowledge that it’s a discussion worth having that creation is too complex to have ordered itself.

Whereas the totally uniformed prefer to think there is no God.

Where as the notion we are cousins of homonids we have very little genetic connection despite no links being found is good science? Or the notion that organic life came from inorganic material spontaneously, the basis of all the rest of the evolutionary theory, an idea which has been consistently disproven by every experiment, is good science? Theories with as many holes as evolution are reevaluated and rejected or revised. Sorry, evolution is a religion as much as creation science, both are pseudo science.

Ay yi yi. Trudeau is so incredibly ignorant. You should take, say, an hour or so to understand a theory before you attempt to destroy it. Killing a strawman does nothing to help your case. Please present us with some evidence for the hypothesis of macroevolution before you attempt to discredit the theory of intelligent design.

You know nothing of my Faith.Jesus said, “Judge not lest ye be judged.”So I will only say May the Lord bless you and keep you, whether you want him to or not.

This strip is just sad. I practically ripped it out of my newspaper when I got it. However, if I did that, I would of destroyed Born Loser.

You know, evolution has no scientific value. God does, that’s the irony of this strip.

Science, particularly “scientific” theories of origin, rely just as much on faith as religion.

There is zero evidence for species to species evolution. Not only that, evolution is non-repeatable, therefore evolutionary science is not science, it is faith.